Dale Farm Eviction

[niceguy2]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-15163750

It seems sanity has prevailed. Let's hope there are no more delays and the site is cleared ASAP

Intellectually dishonest??!! I've heard it all now.
WMMC made a valid point. You don't live here, you are swanning about in a Tuscan farmhouse. If you live in Tuscany, then you don't have a part in UK life, you are just encouraging law breakers and anarchists, from your comfy seat in another country. Your arguments are thin, and you don't answer when people question them, instead you just insult people.
The only thing that separates you from the do gooder protesters who are down at Dale farm making matters worse, is the English channel and several hundred miles!

Is it still going on? They're not out yet? Jesus wept. Yawn.

If mn is so depressing why keep coming back?

Tuscany??? Nice!

I think you will find that I mentione Sharia law upthread actually.
Something along the lines of... If we allow Gypsies to flout the law, then what argument will we have to stop others from practicing forced marriage, and following Sharia law in this country.
You cant make allowances for one, then place restrictions on another.
That is why we have laws. The same laws for everyone.

Glasnost, you certainly are entitled to participate in any debate here. Just in the same way that as a man I am welcome here too. However, your insults and abusive posts are what is getting your messages deleted. It's nothing to do with censorship, just in the same way as the Dale Farm eviction is nothing to do with race.

Frankly none of us could care less about where they originally came from. I myself was an immigrant to this great country thirty years ago and growing up I experienced my fair share of REAL racism. Through my job I've traveled the world (all whilst paying UK taxes!) and have seen many countries. I'm very proud to say that whilst we don't get everything right, the UK is the most racially tolerant society I've seen. That bit we've done very well and we should be proud of that. Are we perfect? Hell no. Could we do better? Always.

But again, this is not about race, this is not about mass murder. Your attempts to compare it with the holocaust and link it to racism just makes people think you are an idiot. This is about evicting a group of law breakers who have been given 10 years of chances to find a peaceful resolution to.

I don't know which country you now live in but I suspect if the traveler's rocked up to a piece of land there and broke the law, they'd be off it way quicker than 10 years and probably with more violence.

You criticise this country all the time and the politicians which run it but yet you actually do not contribute towards it in any way. Isn't that what they call hypocrisy?

@glasnost. "Intellectually dishonest". Laughable from someone with zero credibility. One minute you're urging everyone to revolt, join the Wall Street protests and claiming to be an active participant, when you're not. Next minute you're egging on the rent-a-mob at Dale Farm and calling MN-ers nazis, despite knowing nothing about it. You're perpetually vicious about the coalition government despite having nothing to do with this country and no idea what it's like to live here. Whichever nation it is that's unlucky enough to count you as a citizen, why not go rabble-rousing there instead? Or, unlike the liberal country that you clearly despise, would they put you in prison if you treated them with the same contempt you reserve for us?

The level of hypocrisy and sheer double standards on here is quite breathtaking. Cogito has just insinuated that if you don't pay taxes in the UK then you have no right to express any opinions on the political situation or otherwise there. Wonder what she'd haveto say about Rupert Murdoch who is an American citizen yet shapes, warps and controls British politics since Thatcher's day? If I had the dog whistle muscle reflex of so many on here, I'd respond with terms such as "raving", "rant", "bonkers" etc - all epithets used against me by various pro eviction posters on here. But then I'd be reported etc. The group mentality mechanisms on show here are interesting from an academic point of view but hugely depressing on a human level.

My work leads me to cover UK current affairs and I pay my taxes there just for the info of petty types such as your Cogitos et al. I await her apology.

Whomovedmychocolate who - to my mind - has posted the most offensive post on here alluding to my insanity etc has the temerity to use barely veiled threatening language that I'm being watched by the MN thought police speaks for itself.

Blueberties your hypocrisy is legion, also. You rudely accused Fifi25 of having barely coherent thoughts last night.

Strange times indeed.

"I love the cries of the illiterate gypsy girls being pulled from schools to clean caravans. What about the muslim girls who live under strict sharia law and leave school to enter forced marriages. Oh im sorry, that doesnt happen does it and im not allowed to talk about it regardless of the media campaigns"
Yes. It does happen. And it is against the law of this country. As is removing children from school before the age of 16.
The only difference is that you dont see the tree huggers chaining themselves to the Mosque railings in order to preserve the Muslims basic human rights! Why?
I find it incredibly amusing, that in using that comparison, you have just undermined your whole argument!

Cogito, cogito...calm down and refrain from uttering anymore total untruths based on nothing more than an ideological prejudice towards me because I'm not of your political bent. You're making a fool of yourself.

As I mentioned previously I await your apology.

Where did Cogito say you have no right to express your opinion? You really should read what was written and not what you want to read. The two are entirely different.

All she did was say since you do not live in this country, you've no idea what it's really like. The fact you cover "UK current affairs" doesn't make you any sort of expert at all. It's like me saying I've been to India a few times, talk to them daily and therefore I'm an expert and I know politically what's best for them. It's just bollocks really isn't it?

Make yourself comfortable, you'll be waiting a long time...

Haggy - I don't think I made a valid point on Fifi's posts.

Glasnost I have never been called intellectually dishonest before. I'm going to take that as a compliment. So cheers for that

needanewname another excellent point: why does Glasnost keep coming back? I have a theory but it would be frightfully rude of me to answer on her behalf so I will leave her to explain her position.

On the subject of the evictions, can I ask a question to those opposed to them. If you take away the terms 'traveller', 'gypsy' etc and replace them with 'people' are your arguments still valid? For example: if '100 people' have set up camp without planning permission and are refusing to leave etc. You may say they have special circumstances because they are a minority group but there are literally thousands of minority groups in this country who are not afforded the same advantage.

How about the assumed 1% of the population who are very wealthy.

Or that minority who is blind.

Or disabled.

Or moonies?

You see the problem for me is that I don't believe society works unless everyone engages, which means giving AND receiving. Everyone's welcome unless they are not willing to engage. In which case, they can't expect the protections of that society.

And I'm not saying hound them out of existence. I'm saying that there needs to be agreement that for those involvements in society that involve benefits (for example social support/education) there needs to be a corresponding engagement (taxation/being a good neighbour, obeying the laws of the land).

Having said all that from what I've seen of the reports, the vast majority of the trouble was not made by the travellers but by the protestors. Which is a shame. It does seem that there is a anarchistic set who turn out for these things which do down the cause.

I was reading in the Times this morning of one of the protestors who actually stood in front of a burning caravan brandishing a cross in a set up photo for the cause. Yes that's right, she apparently waited till the caravan was set light and then stood there with her cross. (She's a muslim she told reporters). Blimey, offensive on so many levels.

I feel quite sorry for the travellers who invited people to come down and protest only to find their cause overrun by professional agitators.

Custard - you have to look why they are living illegally though. They are not able or allowed to live within their culture and never have been as other etnic minorities are. Its like saying to a differnt religion right you can live here but you have to worship in the COE. Because not living in bricks and mortar is what they are all about they are denied being able to live within their community as has happened since the dawn of time.

All the council have to do is let the travellers buy a piece of land, put in the adequate facilities and charge council tax. Its not that hard really and would cost a lot less than 18m.

Of course there would then be the argument of where to put them as no one wants them to live near them.

Does anyone on this thread live near a gypsy site or have had dealings with the community. If not then i think they are being hypocites and listen to the hyped up media too much.

Theres 10 illiterate trouble making families on my council estate whos kids never go to school, there not romas or travellers. There white british families. That must mean everyone who lives on a council estate are illiterate trouble makers then.

Glasnost, I love your turns of phrase.
Frothing at the mouth.
Dog whistle muscle reflex.
Right wing gypsy haters.
Are they your own? Or did you get them from a pamphlet?
Either way, you need to come up with a few more, because those are getting a little old hat!
And for the record, WMMC was just trying to clarify the point that the post you mentioned may have been deleted by MN off its own back, rather than because it was reported. I didnt read any threats, just clarification. Theres no need to be paranoid. Big brother is watching everybody. Not just you!

It may also severly irritate you to know I live in the UK part of the year.

How dare she!!!! They scream.

Apologies in order. To me, to Fifi25 who was derided for her spelling, to 2old2beamum for being unjustly deleted, to mathanxiety for having taken the time to attempt to reason with you and receiving short shrift (at best) in response. But I know no apologies will be forthcoming as that's the nature of your collective mindset. Poor UK. Really is going to the dogs. I may just haveto come back sooner than anticipated.

"Does anyone on this thread live near a gypsy site or have had dealings with the community." Yes I have. And yes, I have.

Asking that question does rather indicate that you haven't been reading posts.

I mean, the question about "does anyone live near". I've read quite a few posts. Some by people who aren't here any more, redcarnation for example.

I can't comment on glasnost's posts really, it's quite beyond me.

No why do YOU keep coming back? Your side has won for now. The residents have been evicted for the most part I believe. "Justice" has been seen to be done. So why keep coming on here and hammering away at the few BRAVE voices not singing from your Viscount Rothermere/Richard Desmond/Murdoch tawdry hymn sheets.

And Cogito I know hell would haveto freeze over before you would apologise for getting things catastrophically wrong. I hope you conduct yourself differently in your personal life.

Notsoniceguy. Stop desperately fighting other errant posters' corners. Cogito wrote way off the mark, irrelevant, offensive pish and you know it.

I think CustardCake has hit the nail on the head.