Dale Farm Eviction

[niceguy2]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-15163750

It seems sanity has prevailed. Let's hope there are no more delays and the site is cleared ASAP

[Rocky12]

The one thing the travellers did correctlywas leave when they were outnumbered. I am sick of this story, they brought cheap green belt land, built on it and then tried to stay (FOR TEN YEARS!!). They do have offers of other accomendation, they choose not to take it. And I thought travellers moved around - why are they staying in places for 10 years. Perhaps the council should have announced that they were sending the Inland Revenue in - that would have cleared the place in a flash.

And for people who say they are victimised. Offer them a place in your back garden, allow them to tap into your electricity and gas (that's what they did in an estate I used to live in), no - I didnt think so.....

[TalkinPeace2]

having had a bucket load of my posts reported - could I just check something?

Traveller (irish / roma /convoy) encampments have set up within 150 yards of my house 11 times in the last two years
could I just check that those who post on this thread have actually seen such sites grow, settle and decay in the way that those of us well outside London have done?

[Rocky12]

It does seem that people can be very liberal when it doesnt affect them, Vanessa Redgrave springs to mind over Dale Farm, easy to be supportive and then go back to your quiet detached house and say how terrible it is that the travellers are victimised so much....

And yes, in a small way (nothing like Dale Farm) I have been affected by travellers, the mess they leave behind, the money they seem to have to spend on flashy cars and huge weddings, do they pay tax, do they do their bit for the community, do they care about others? A relative is a sister in Home Counties hospital. When the travellers arrived in her area they were a menace around the hospital when one of the relatives was sick, threatening behaviour, wanting to be seen first, their need was more urgentetc. So, no I dont want travellers anywhere near where I live.

[moondog]

Exactly. Same with immigration.
The liberal left fastening back the borders don't actually live near all those Poles and Romanians.
Dear me, no.

[thefirstMrsDeVeerie]

I live near all those poles and romanians.

IME the people who tend to foam about immigration the most have yet to actually meet any immigrants.
The nice couple who run the Chinese takeaway dont count.

[moondog]

Really?
What is your defintion of 'having met' then.
DeVere is it you who had the thread about someone building a 'gym' in the back garden?

[TalkinPeace2]

But Dale farm is not about "immigrants" or different lifestyles or any of that
if it was they would be making the other half of the site move out too
but they are not
BECAUSE
those who abide by the rules are not the problem

it is those - of any, hue, persuasion or background - who expect lots and offer nothing who are

I am an immigrant. I reported to the police monthly as a child
now I am invisible and integrated
I expect no less from anybody else - especially those who are EU citizens and have more rights than I do.

[thefirstMrsDeVeerie]

Yes what has that got to do with romanians?

Having met? Well people who live in my mums village who rant about bogus asylum seekers and how they eat swans.

If they have ever met a Romanian I am a bloody chinaman.

[mathanxiety]

'No planning permission.....you have to leave. End of.'

As MrsDeVere said, if you think you are protected by planning regs, haha, think again.

Surely it is obvious to those talking about 'the law' that for eight years judges and appeals boards gave the Dale Farm Travellers the OK to stay?

This means:
It was Basildon who insisted on dragging the process out by constantly appealing,
Many judges thought the Travellers had a leg to stand on, and
When it comes to planning, you can't really predict what a judge may decide. It may not be a simple case of 'no planning permission...you have to leave'.

'End of' is a sentiment that doesn't really sit well with the fact that the law develops, and the fact that it is open to many interpretations (hence the legal profession).

The approved half of the Dale Farm site does not seem to have experienced the transformation from vans to brick. The buildings that are there are chalets. If change of use in Dale Farm is an issue, then why is half the site approved? Why are there other (brick) residential buildings nearby -- see an aerial view here? As you can see in the photo, there is a lot of development in the area. Hence the fact that there are neighbours to complain in the first place.

For the most part, those Travellers who still wish to maintain the mobile life are not going to bother with a brick building. If they wanted a brick house they would accept the offer of council housing. Most Traveller sites are situated on land such as Dale Farm, which was formerly a scrapyard after all, so a change of use to accommodation of Travellers might be a change for the better. Van creep doesn't seem to have happened in the approved half, where the dwellings are chalets. If they are on their way to brick then it is definitely a very slow creep.

What is wrong with brick anyway?

Is it preferable to have so called greenbelt or to allow people to live their lives free from fear of eviction or from crippling rent in communities where housing is short? This is a problem that applies not just to the Dale Farm Travellers but to everyone affected by the housing shortage. That article by Brendan O'Neill linked to upthread was tongue in cheek but there is an issue here of values greenbelt or other land vs. people's need to live somewhere those talking of the need for the greenbelt and the sacred nature of land and countryside may never have been faced with the sort of rent bill a lot of urbanites find themselves facing, or the kind of conditions a lot of people have to deal with on an estate.

A while back there was a brouhaha about the poor being forced to move out of London 'Housing benefit cut would make London unaffordable' -- the link between the sacred cow of the British countryside and the overcrowding and high rents of urban areas doesn't seem to be apparent to many here who are complaining about Travellers jumping queues and taking scarce resources from a society where there is not enough to go around. The ultimate victims are being blamed here for the shortcomings of policymakers. The lack of attention to housing needs of the poor, all the poor, affects huge numbers of people. The Tarvellers don't even want the houses that are available. They would be fine with paved and serviced pitching sites.

[onagar]

for eight years judges and appeals boards gave the Dale Farm Travellers the OK to stay?

I think you have that backwards. They were allowed to stay while they thought of all kinds of grounds for appeal which all failed because they were unreasonable.

You have to let people do appeals though just in case they do have good grounds.

[EdlessAllenPoe]

that really doesn't tell us when those houses were built or the reasoning behind their pp (agricultural tie?) -planning has got progressively tighter - my house would be very difficult to get built now, but no problem at all back in the 1930's..

planning in rural areas is tough - very tough. my neighbour probably could build a house in their back garden, because it is residential zoned land in a suburban area. Other people on my road have done exactly that. They wouldn't get pp for one in the field over the back fence though.....

your reasoning that once you've got pp for half, you may as well grant for all - this is really contrary to planning thinking. they agree a little here and there (if anything) on the promise that there won't be more later.

the reason i read up on planning law at all was because my parents wanted to buy a small bungalow on a large plot of land to retire to. i searched, and found all such things had big price tags on them. I then looked at buying a piece of land and how easy it would be to get PP for a small house, mobile home - even a van. Bloody impossible was my conclusion. it would take so long they'd probably ahem have little use for living accommodation by the time they'd done it.

that said, mum's friend accomplished just that...you've guessed it...

she's a farmer.

[Haggyoldclothbatspus]

I cant believe this thread is still going!

[Fifis25StottieCakes]

No talkin, i have a legal one a 10 minute walk from my house. Its been there for years on the edge of an industrial estate next to the east coast main line. Its well kept and no one that i know of has had any bad dealings with them. Some of them are farriers and some are tree surgeons. I know quite a few of them as the kids grandad is a farrier and shoe supplier so he has dealing with them. I believe the kids go to the school in the next town. Theres also a big legal one about 5 miles away next to my exsil's house. Im in Gateshead.

[TalkinPeace2]

so they are not exactly travelling much then

the sites we get round here are illegal : outside schools, by the library, on the rugby pitch, in a hotel car park ; and if you look at the pictures in the Hampshire Chronicle they leave THE MOST horrendous mess behind

[Fifis25StottieCakes]

Not sure, probably some do and some dont. I know other travellers stay on their site

They need council owned maintained sites or family owned private sites imo

[TalkinPeace2]

family owned private sites

what the rest of us call houses with driveways

that we get mortgages for - not expect the council to provide

[Fifis25StottieCakes]

No ones stopping you living on a caravan site, i believe its about £2000 per yr for site fees and bills plus you caravan payment. Your whole family could buy one on one site. Berwicks nice and crimdon dene only close for 4 weeks of the year.

You choose to live in a house and have a mortgage, no one made you

[moondog]

Spot on TP

[TalkinPeace2]

fifi
but these people refuse to live in caravan sites where mere mortals like the rest of us live
they have turned down houses that many homeless people would rip your arm off for
they want THEIR way paid for by us

Nigerians, Pakistanis, Malaysians, Ghurkas, Jamaicans, Inuit, Touareg : you name it
they cope with 1930's bow fronted semis
why is that not good enough for a group of people who label themselves "travellers" ?

Why should I pay for able bodied, wealthy freeloaders -of any hue or background ?
when I arrived in this country I did not "expect" anything : I have little sympathy for those who do

especially in times where there are thousands of young native people with no hope of a job, camped out in central London as its better than watching daytime TV

[onagar]

..so let me get this straight. If I say I want to travel around the council must provide me with a caravan site at any place I fancy visiting.

[Fifis25StottieCakes]

So why would you want thousands of travellers across the country to take council houses they dont want when the homeless 'native's' could have them

I know a lot of people in desperate situations in homeless accomodation with kids or families jam packed into flats. Thats shit, and theres no way they can get a mortgage in their low paid jobs. I know they wouldnt want to spend another 3 years where they are waiting for housing knowing people have got them who dont even want them but they are desperate for. And i mean desperate.

[Fifis25StottieCakes]

these people and the freeloader argument

how do you know they dont work, you just assume they dont. Your making sweeping generalisations of a whole ethnic minority.

Im hiding this thread, got nothing else to say on the matter. If anyone wants info its on links, especially the gov one

Like it or not talkin they are an ethnic minority and i find your posts offensive.

[Fifis25StottieCakes]

have you LOOKED at the cars these people drive?
Rangerover HE?
even if it was stolen and uninsured I could not afford the petrol