Justine and her mum - Times' Relative Values

[TanteRose]

today's Relative Values

Justine, your mum in the photo in Malta looks just like you now

Nice article - your mum sounds fun! Oh and is everyone at Mumsnet Towers really scared of you?

Ah bonsoir is that the ecole maternelle? I understand they focus on play rather than teaching, and it is more structured than just 'childcare'?

Ive heard about the holiday schemes, they did things like taking the children skiing and to the beach, I think it was for several months? And they had afterschool clubs, which was like adventure playgrounds.

école maternelle is school taught by fully-qualified primary school teachers. It lasts for three years, getting progressively more academic - lots of pre-writing, counting etc - and the DC are fully prepared for proper school at 6 when they learn to read, write and do sums almost immediately.

There are lots of holiday schemes, both run by the local authority and privately.

Xenia, you really come across as a women hater.

Although I'm glad I don't have to do too much of the school gate I still do lots of 'stupid mundane' stuff with ds even though I work. I don't feel guilty for working. I need to (I get the impression you do much more work than you need to do to support your family).

To me the 'stupid mundane' stuff I do at home is far more important than the stupid and mundane stuff I do at work - difference is that one pays and the other doesn't. I know you have a high flying career but I'm pretty sure that much of what you do is stupid and mundane but you just get paid well for it. Good on you but it doesn't make it less stupid or mundane than undertaking the tasks that the majority of women do at home be it paid or unpaid.

nothing is more stupid and mundane than ironing, surely?

Ironing is very dull, but I do like to wear ironed clothes. So I either do it or pay someone else to do it... and of course, you can carry on conversations with your family while ironing, so it is hardly time wasted. DD got spelling tests in both languages last night while I did a little ironing - now who could I employ who would and could do all three tasks simultaneously?

Litchick - why is ironing stupid. Ironing leads to crease free clothes and surely that's good, no? Nowt stupid about it - mundane, yup, but not stupid surely?

Lovely article??? I thought both Justine and her mother came across really badly in it.

Ironing is my least favourite thing in the entire world.

Even if I were working in the dullest job ever, and think I might have tried a couple, there was nothing to compare. Nothing I tell you.

Ironig is for min dless morons. If it were intellectuall stimulating and huge fun more men might do it. I might be just about tolerable if you were in high heels and a newly ironed shirt and not much else and it were part of some kind of fun activity I suppose.

And uyes I do loads of dull domestic stuff and lots of nice things with the children too but like Justine's mother and many many other women just having a family is not what women and men want or need. We mostly need much more.

I thought the article was a bit patronising to SAHM's, with the reference to Justine saying about her mum "She could never have been the little woman sitting at home,"

and her mum saying about her
"With her drive and brains, Justine could never have been a full-time mum,"

what a bloody cheek!

don't see why all the fawning is going about on this thread, when I read it yesterday I actually thought, now I know who Xenia is!!

Yep I also thought that her mum was on a pedestal because she actually worked.

Didn't really endear the mum or daughter to me. Very patronising - like they were the only women of each generation to have been wage earners. Erm - oh well.

Ironing is for mindless morons? Do you tell that to your cleaner Xenia and do you pay her a mindless moron wage too?

Love it how many women just despise other women. Nice.

I despise no one. I have done hours of dull domestic stuff over 26 years of a mother. I've done my share of clearing up sick. I tidy stuff up all day long but it's terribly dull and most people in all cultures and all sexes as soon as they can subcontract it out they do it. The romans to their slaves. The Indians in africa to the Africans, the Victorians to their huge servant class. Men to women and the like. No despising but not understanding how any woman could prefer say wiping babies bo ttoms 12 hours a day rather than performing open heart surgery or running BP.

Actually the article just confirmed what I think: the women who want to work are those who are dissatisfied with their socio-economic standing. No better, no worse than anyone else - they just want more money!

I dunno Bonsoir, I just think some people (both men and women) derive more pleasure from domestic duties.

Some people really enjoy cooking and keeping the home orderly etc...though I am not prepared to believe anyone enjoys ironing.

But xenia you do despise quite a bit with your comments.

xenia, no one wipes bottoms 12 hrs a day

what did you feed your kids?

ssd I had twins...I tell you it was almost constant. Like a conveyor belt of feeding, burping and wiping arses.

actually xenia, I've just realised why you are so narrow minded, you seem to think its all either wiping bottoms 12 hrs a day or running BP - don't you realise theres a great big world in between?

Yes, I enjoy cooking and making sure my home looks nice, though I would rather spend time choosing furnishing materials than dusting . I like the hospitality side of domestic life, not the service side. Ironing is on the service side - ensuring that the laundry is taken care of is on the hospitality side, IYSWIM.

Yes I love cooking, although ironing is possibly the only thing I agree with Xenia on .

Actually perhaps its the eating of delicious nutritious dinners I prefer. hmm not sure.