Justine and her mum - Times' Relative Values

[TanteRose]

today's Relative Values

Justine, your mum in the photo in Malta looks just like you now

Nice article - your mum sounds fun! Oh and is everyone at Mumsnet Towers really scared of you?

I read the article yesterday and thought the comment Justine made about her mother not being "the little woman who sat at home" was pretty appalling.

I thought bloody hell she's just insulted about half of the women who go on her website.

She obvioulsy doesn't think much of SAHMs and her comment did nothing for the sisterhood!

Well who does? They're bunch of losers who couldn't hack it work. Let's be honest about it. It's all good fun and they can say what they think of working fathers (their husbands presumably who contract out childcare) and working mothers. If you are sure in your choices you are content with any comments made by others. Laughing as I type. If there were no debate there would be no site.

Ha ha bloody ha Xenia.

Don't you have any very inportant work to be getting on with?

True. My work is done on this thread.. laughing as I type. Any housewife who knows it is better to be home with her children doesn't object to what working mothers say just as it's water off a duck's back to me if anyone spouts the lie that suggests children do better with mothers at home. We live and let live in perfect sisterly harmony....

I didn't think either of them came across very well. The respect they have for each other and the choices they made, especially with hindsight, was clear, but lines such as 'With her drive and brains, Justine could never have been a full-time mum' I found really patronising. This line said to me that no woman who has drive and brains would ever be a SAHM and it makes me sad that there are still so many people who are downright rude about people who stay at home to raise their children. If it had said, 'Justine is too dedicated, caring and compassionate about her children to put them into childcare' there would have been uproar from all the working mums. Why so belittling?

Disclaimer: not that I think that any parent who goes out to work is not dedicated, caring and compassionate about her children, just pointing out that someone who values a role of a SAHM could put their view forward in this way which would be equally as rude and belittling of WOHMs.

But it's true. NO woman or man with drive or brains can possibly be happy at home being in effect a domestic servant. It's patently obvious that is so just as it's obvious in converse statement that that statement is untrue. Caring mothers know it is better for children if they work thus the caring way is to ensure good childcare and do your chilren a favour by working as you benefit them.

Oh sod off Xenia, noone is listening to your vile comments.

Xenia, you need a namechange to TheBellman, I think!

Sorry, should have been clear. I was not expecting serious consideration of the message in the article from Xenia and those with prejudiced views which they apply to an entire group without considering individuals within the group.

What I see is a founder of MN saying that women who choose to stay at home with their children are the 'little women' and her mother saying that none of them have drive and brains. I think it is a shame that someone who runs a website so valued by so many mothers can belittle such a high proportion of people in one fell swoop.

I thought both Justine and her mum came across as patronising. Shame, really.

If a woman staying home to look after her children is nothing more than a domestic servant (according to Xenia above), a woman who goes out to work is one too, a paid servant for her employer. Unless you are so rich that you have wealth and money pouring in without having to work I don't think anyone can throw about phrases like domestic servant to make themselves feel good about themselves.

I feel like a domsetic servant. I get no pay, no reward, and no thanks.
At least if you go out to work you get recognition of the work you do, you get paid and most importantly you get a day off.

I did think that the article showed the respect that both women have for the choices each has made. That is a rare thing.

My grandmother who worked in a mill for ten or more hours a day didn't bleat on about how superior she was for working. I don't know why some women think it makes them heroes. It's just work ffs.

Patronising?
In what way? I just thought it was a fairly nice, normal, picture of family life.

Xenia.

You doth protest too much.

FlyingSquirrel how could you steal the words off me?

We are hearing drivel from someone who is deeply discontented.

Patronising in the way many posters have already said.

In a nutshell the article said 'We're so driven and smart that we couldn't possibly just be mothers, but we're glad that there are women who are'

Just like working women who used to tell me they 'admired' me for being a SAHM as it would 'drive them up the wall'.

To be fair to Xenia. I really really do not beleive she says these things to be defensive. Or because she is deeply unhappy.

I know many of you want to beleive that. It makes her views palatable. But actually, it's too easy - the flip side of her comments and every bit as defensive as you claim she is.

There are many women who just prefer to work than SAH. Many on here. Xenia, Scottishmummy, violethill, quatrocentro...I could go on.

Why such a shock that Justine (who has built up phenominally successful business from scratch) would feel the same.

That isn't how I read it!
No wonder it has descended to a pointless argument about WOHM and SAHM. Maybe the fact that I was a SAHM, loved it, think it much the best choice for me and didn't feel inferior in anyway was the reason I missed it.
I am not apologetic or ashamed about it, it was merely a choice that I was lucky enough to be able to make and I can't see why I should feel patronised if people decide they need, or have to take paid employment.
I'm sure that it wasn't intended to come over as patronising, it could only do so if you are insecure about your own choices and feel the need to justify it. I chose SAHM, I don't need to justify and I feel equal to anyone who has a high flying career.

It's when relative values does not go on about women and child care and childcare is seen as something fathers do as much as mothers that we may have moved on a bit.

Also you often find journalists change a bit what was said. Someone refused to interview me the other day as I said my views were 100% the opposite of what the article was going to be about. I didn't fit the mould so you cannot even be sure that what was said was the view of the person but we all take that risk if we choose to speak to the press.

I think I'm pretty happy actually. I'm lucky. In some ways that and good health are the things for which I am most grateful.