Justine and her mum - Times' Relative Values

[TanteRose]

today's Relative Values

Justine, your mum in the photo in Malta looks just like you now

Nice article - your mum sounds fun! Oh and is everyone at Mumsnet Towers really scared of you?

well..exactly - everyone on this thread has plenty of time to MN - the amount of drudgery involved involved for SAHMs obviously isn't that great!

and i see justification of choices on both sides of this one.

GOML - no, i also find it really easy not to feel guilty - even though my oldest used to bawl as soon as i walked out of the door. and do a nasty smelly poo in protest. Once the decision is made, no point going back over it.

I have no beef with Justine or anyone who chooses/has chosen to work rather than not.

I just don't see why it has to be used as a stick to beat others with. Remarks about the little woman at home and being unduly obsessed about sandwiches are totally uncalled-for, especially from someone like Justine, who, let's face it, is reaping the benefits of women having access to pcs at home (oh, not forgetting the ones in high-flying jobs whose work is so pressing and important they can spare time to linger here).

Looks like we've all got egg on our faces, doesn't it? Thanks Justine.

grmaces remembering bleach-flavoured sandwiches of yore from Sahm-mother<

at least my shirts were clean.

saddles up toddler for bimble in the blue yonder.

Litchick, do you not wonder why there is the compulsion to be so offensive toward and disparaging of another way?

I know Xenia you think it is your role as court jester to say these retrograde women hating controversial things, but really, I am glad you handed over the care of your DC to a fulltime nanny because you are so abrasive, self important, narrow minded and snooty, you would be a very bad example to impressionable DC if you spent more than odd moments at weekends with them. Well done, you def made the right decision for you, your DC, your well-remunerated nanny and society at large. i would hate to think of your 5 DC all running around aping you in thought and deed. Luckily, they'll struggle to recognise you and prob have far better attachments to their carers.

I also think re Xenia, that with all those children, it is very probable that one of them/or their partners will want to be a SAHM.

God I'd love to be a fly on the wall for that one!

They can all do as they choose. I just want them to make informed choices.

As Edgar says plenty of mothers and fathers work and we don't feel any guilt.There's no need to -if the thesis is working parents benefit and help their children and housewives damage them then why would there by guilt. We want the housewives to gather at our feet and learn of course.....learn the path to the better way.

if that's thye thesis?

what thesis?

and why are you online in the middle of the day? don't you have a corporation to raid?

I am a SAHM with two fast asleep babies
I am here with impunity

Greythorne - leave Xenia be. Working for money and evangelising about working for money are what drives her life - look on her as a sort of sect leader - think Jehovah's Witness

well - the two things that make for a crap childhood

1. crap parents
2. poverty

Staying at home or otherwise isn't necessarily going to help with 1) - working won't always help with 2) -

truly this is always going to be an individual thing.

my daughter is sucking her hand in an effort to get fed.

whether I work or ot, i have no doubt my childrn will complain to their psychotherapists about the large amount of time spent gazing at a white and blue screen...

Xenia "they can all do as they choose"

Well said, and that is what the vast majority of SAHMs are doing. We don't want or need you to keep trotting out your offensive witterings.

But I don't mind housewives saying children suffer if mothers work . What I do mind is the idea that women do and should feel guilty about it which was suggested in the article. Ditch the guilt. We don't need it.

I don't think men would feel the same guilt, women heap it upon themselves and then heap it on other women. Men, rightly or wrongly, are far more secure IMO-they make a decision, are happy with it and couldn't care less what others do. Women make a decision and then have to justify by proving other women wrong.
I have said, on a thread, that it is perfectly OK for a small baby to have it's own room and instead of people saying 'whatever suits you, but I wouldn't do it' they start quoting statistics at you, to scare you into thinking it is dangerous and that you are an unnatural woman and your DC will grow up insecure. The same with all manner of parenting choices, if they have read all the 'right' books and decided on UP for instance it has to be superior to anything that suits someone else.
It is all unimportant, as I said earlier, you only need unconditional love, security, communication and a sense of humour. You can devote your life to your DC and never leave their side for the first 5 yrs, but you can still be a lousy mother!
My mother was a SAHM and I think that she made a good job of it, but when she eventually went to work when I was a teenager she really blossomed and I think that it might have suited her much earlier. I am completely different and loved being at home with small DCs.
I didn't feel the article was patronising, I may have been a SAHM but I was never 'a little woman at home' so I didn't identify with the statement or even think that I should. Likewise I never fussed with sandwiches, I know mothers who have made sandwiches with cut out shapes and little messages, but that wasn't me-my DCs would have been embarrassed and they wanted something quick, plain and boring to get out to play fast!
I think that people read far to much into things and over analyse, probably because they worry that someone else does it better. I am 'good enough' which is fine.

I don't feel guilt or need to justify anything., Just lije most people on the planet of either sex I work.

Yes the people who are happiest are like L and like I am - the good enough ones.

Ahat is interestnigi s what makes one peron male or female contenta dns ecure and what makes another not and always full of angst about their choices.

Xenia - you are very self-referential aren't you.

Has it ever occurred to you that your experiences lie in a very (very)narrow range of what constitutes a happy balanced life. And that the status driven, corporate, acquisitive, raison d'etre that you espouse doesn't reflect on the lives or experiences of 99 per cent of women on here.

"I thought the article was a bit patronising to SAHM's, with the reference to Justine saying about her mum "She could never have been the little woman sitting at home,"

and her mum saying about her
"With her drive and brains, Justine could never have been a full-time mum,"

I absolutely agree that this is patronising bullshit.

But I don't hold Justine up as some poster girl for women everywhere either.

However, I would bet that your DH wouldn't waste time on a parenting forum, BeerTricksPotter,telling other men what they should do or not do! If he has decided that co sleeping suits the family I would bet that he wouldn't tell everyone that it should suit them and he is a superior parent because he practises it. (I bet he couldn't care less what others do and wouldn't even ask).

I don't agree with that Lamorna. I think men are more than capable of competitive parenting. DP saves his up for football chat and that bloody Richard Dawkins website

I may have been a SAHM but I was never 'a little woman at home'

That is an excellent point too