From the Wall Street Journal: WHY CHINESE MOTHERS ARE SUPERIOR

[Medea]

I kept rereading it for irony, but there was none.

Why Chinese Mothers Are Superior

Math - thank you! That was the book I was failing to describe accurately in my earlier post - yes, it was a very harrowing read.

well many chinese children of succesful parents are having very little interaction with their parents as they're boarding most of the year in uk schools only returning home for the summer holidays. ds said of the chinese boys in his school house they're all rolling in cash like monopoly money, and drug use a massive problem.

Well the author was certainly frank and no pussy footing around her topic! (I think there is a bit of irony though!) But her generalisation that all children of Chinese/oriental-style hothousing parents routinely get As in everything? Even subjects they aren't good at? That would be far fetched. And for some parents, a school play is also a matter of prestige, so I think they would encourage that too ("Do the school play if you get a major role. But make sure your grades are still As!") There is a point that they can be pragmatic - parents don't see the point in being shepherd number 8 with no lines, only if the child is Mary, Joseph or even Herod in the nativity play...to that end they don't really teach teamwork and camaraderie as well, but rather obedience (to the boss) and respect for others.
The violin and piano thing made me laugh - most of the time, parents pick these because they are the easiest instruments to buy and find teachers for. There are also lots of excellent Chinese and Oriental cellists (expensive instrument to learn!) so that's definitely irony. I think what most parents think is "bongo drums do not count as music lessons".
Finally, most Chinese parents I know do not fit this picture at all, and they have children with a range of academic ability from ok to above average to outstanding. All watch tv and quite a few have quite sophisticated computer games hidden in their state of the art phones! I think the key thing that the author might have missed is that most of the children are successful because they get a lot of quality time with their parents, even if most of the time the parents are saying, "let's hear you go through that Bach again".
The main thing is that for many Chinese parents that she describes, it is rare/unheard of for them to go out to the pub, spa, footy matches, girls' weekends, lads' night out, etc because they spend so much time with their kids at home, or attending recitals, speech day, driving them to music lessons, etc. They're not just apparent tyrants - they are making sacrifices too. You will never see movies about whether Chinese dads might make it home in time for the kids' birthday or school recital, because they are the ones there EARLY, putting up the balloons and carrying the child's violin case or extra jumper (seriously).

It's a lot more effort being a pushy parent and perhaps we need to examine why we take the lazy line of least resistance route with our children: is it better for them or just a lot less effort for us?

A friend's DS goes to tutoring as he wants to sit the selective school exams for high school.

The tutoring college is Chinese run.

After attending for two weeks, he had to sit a small exam. When they received the results, the parents were told

"He's very bright for an Aussie kid"

My DD has a friend attending the top selective school in Sydney and her Mum got very upset when the School told her that they were going to advance her DD a year because she was too bright to stay where she was.

They are Hong Kong Chinese and beautiful people and great friends.

What a horrible and ignorantly written article. I hate all this stereotyping bullshit. Makes me MADMADMADMADMAD!!!!!
She needs someone to tell her how useless and stupid she sounds, dimwitted nincompoop - after all I am assuming she has the 'strength' to deal with it.

what do you think her book
"World on Fire: How Exporting Free Market Democracy Breeds Ethnic Hatred and Global Instability" is about? Me sees a link between bullying children and allowing the state to bully and nanny its citizens

I totally disagree with you Southofthethames.My dh is chinese and has very little involvement with the kids.He is not a hands-on father but leaves it up to me!.He is also totally opposed to the chinese way of hot-housing children as he had a very unhappy childhood.His siblings have all ended up academically bright but socially and professionally damaged by their upbringing.We have also lived in Asia for a number of years and most chinese kids are bought up by Filipino maids.The children have very little contact with the parents.I do agree that chinese parents expect their kids to work hard which is no bad thing and this work ethic has been lost in the uk.However i read the article with increasing horror [as did my 11 year old mixedd dd who was horrified by the threat to burn her stuffed dogs].

I was struck by how superficial the article is - very abusive to children in the main .
The only sensible thing was to have high expectations of the children- which I agree with- to ask them to do better and help them along if they did badly- I see the sense of this.
Sleepovers/school plays etc are a pain admittedly and parental life is easier without them.
The piano and violin thing I don't understand at all and must be a modern Chinese fashion and rather counterproductive. In academic terms I see no difference between spending three hours at a play rehearsal or three hours practising the piano/violin. Both are equally 'useless' in the long term so the child should do what he/she prefers.
Very odd parent/child interactions described. I cant believe for a moment all Chinese mums are like this. What happened to the inner drive and motivation the Chinese are famous for?

To be honest I'm quite shocked at other for agreeing with her a little bit, or thinking she might have a valid point or two. And the stereotyping for me, is very much a side issue. My main concern and disgust is to do with her how she is treating her kids. It's child abuse and there is no excuse for it.

TBH even with non abusive but pushy parents, I find the motivations are very selfish. Children are not there to make us look good or to compete with others. They are human beings and my main priority in life is to make sure my child has a happy childhood. That DOES include sleepovers, having shit parts in plays, taking on hobbies that will serve no purpose in the future and having my unconditional love whether they suceed or fail at whatever they do. It does not include being treated like a piece of shit. I'm sorry but this woman is cruel, deluded and just wrong wrong wrong in the head.

after reading this I think the word Chinese needs to be replaced with cruel and the word mother be replaced with bitch...glad she was not my mother

I'm not sure where to start - except that to trot out the line about 'cultural differences' is to let down the children who are treated in this way. Having said that, maybe this sort of regime 'works' better in a context where ALL children are treated in this way (is there such a place? even in China?) than somewhere where there's such a cruel contrast between this approach and the one that most other children experience. BUt as others have remarked, this is a typical attitude of immigrant parents desperately wanting their children to excell in their new country - perhaps it isn't that typical of the 'mother country' after all?

I can't understand why this fetishising of learning the violin or piano, either. What makes it so important? Why not other instruments, or another form of expression altogether? I suppose it's just an accepted currency of success - my child plays the violin perfectly. Not very imaginative of the parents, though.

She's not working from any accepted psychological base, is she, this crazy woman? Really ignorant.

I just couldn't believe Amy Chua when I read her piece in The Sunday Times. Her brand of extreme parenting doesn't do us (Chinese mothers in general) any favours as it reinforces and (heaven forbid!) celebrates stereotypes which we, as garden variety mums everywhere, try so hard to escape from. Am I being cynical to think that she's exaggerated most things for better to sell her book?

As an overseas-born (not China born) Chinese mother living in the UK, I have to constantly find a balance between the two cultures when bringing up my two boys. Yes, one plays the piano and cello; the other plays the violin and piano. Yes, they are both academically inclined. BUT they also spend a lot of time playing Nintendo DS and Wii, cricket, hockey, rugby, etc and spend a lot of time watching Spongebob Squarepants, Josh & Drake, iCarly, etc.

My boys have never seen a cane or feather duster in our house. You'll be lucky to get them to practise 4x a week on their instruments; more often than not, I'm deliriously happy when they practise half-an-hour alternate days. Music has given them an opportunity to socialise with other kids from different schools every Saturday; sports meant that they meet other kids in a different environment. They're not keen on drama but they enjoy making props, sorting out lighting and writing scripts.

Of course, I do shout, threaten, cajole, bribe...whatever it takes when the pressure is on during exam season...but I have realised very early on that if the child has no love for whatever you want them to do, they will not do it well or enjoy it. You might as well move on to other things!

I have ordered Amy Chua's book and look forward to writing a rebuttal to it because Chinese mothers around the world deserve to have more positive encouragement the brand of parenting she's advocating.

Here is an interesting piece about the book by another Asian Pacific woman.

I'm quite strict and take no prisoners but I couldn't read to the end of that article - because frankly it is a crap parenting philosophy

The part of the article where she is making the little girl practice until she gets the tune perfect made me sick....very abusive imho.

She will have many problems with the girls when they grow up...the resentment is bound to come out

OK, I hadn't realised this is a memoir rather than a 'this is how you should bring up your children' sort of book.

I read an interview with her and she said:

'I have many [regrets]. I wish I hadn?t been so harsh. I wish I hadn?t lost my temper so much. I wish I?d paid more attention earlier to the individual personalities of my daughters. Maybe given them a little more choice. If I?d had to do it all over again, I would basically do the same thing with some adjustments. Looking at my daughters now, I am incredibly proud of them. It?s not just that they?re good students. It?s that they?re really kind, generous, confident, happy girls with lots of friends and huge personalities. They?re always putting me in my place. They?re the opposite of robots.'

Lulu, the younger daughter, called her a terrible, selfish mother when they had a row on a trip to Moscow, and she modified her parenting approach because she realised she might lose her daughter if she didn't.

I was as shocked as anyone by that NYT article, by the way. But I think that the reality may be a bit more complex, a bit less harsh, at least now.

www.jeanhsu.com/?p=229

A good response to her article from another chinese mother.

what i would say h difference betwen what is outlined in this article and what i would think an ok level of pushiness -

my kids were 4-7 year olds in full time school. they had been in full time English school since 2 - 3 years old. Most went from school to evening classes - maths class (where they learned 'head abacus') or arts class - they seemed to talk abut those things happily, and mentioned games they'd played there.
I didn't give them homework though sometimes sent the home with books - which were not always read.

that i don't consider too much - the kids were happy with it, they had fun in school, and in extra lessons, and they were obviously proud of their learning and confident in it.

the difference is: no-one was bullying these children to succeed - their time was pretty full with learning activitis but these were made to be more play. They were allowed to have friends, they got lots of positive encouragement - none of the negative, boring crap being pushed at the kids in the article.

notatigermum - most the little Taiwanese babies I taught had lovely parents - i anythin i thouht they were rather indulgent (if very keen on education). I think this woman is not typical of modern MC Chinese cultural thinking.

There is so much stereotype in this article - and unfortunately also quite a bit of truth. Most of the girls in my boarding house are Chinese and they are under extreme pressure. In fact, most of them are here boarding in the UK because they're deemed not bright enough to get A grades in China, so they're whisked overseas so parents can talk about how they're giving their children a 'British education' and not have their reputations sullied. With only a very few exceptions, they will all get straight A/A grades at A level. They also have to go to Oxford, Cambridge or a London University (because they're the universities other people will have heard of in China), again with a very few exceptions. I had a girl last year who went to St Andrews and her parents almost disowned her. I have one girl who is not especially bright but works extremely hard - it was heart breaking trying to explain to her that she is unlikely to get A grades at A level as she just doesn't have a choice*. There is little recognition of natural talent - she couldn't work any harder. Her mother kept her at home for the entire Christmas holiday with a tutor every single day, all day. I find it very sad.

This may be typical parental behaviour in China, but in my experience this is very untypical of Chinese parents raising children in the West. I grew up with many Chinese friends and it wasn't remotely like this! This woman is nuts.

But if you go to the end of sproutpudding's link, you can see that she has some regrets about her methods. Well how could she not?!

Pippaandpolly I have just started looking around for 6th form boarding for my DD. From my recent round of school visits I have found there are a great many overseas Chinese children all expecting to achieve A* in all subjects. I feel so sorry for these kids being under such pressure but it's also difficult to discover how successful the schools would be if you took these pupils out of the mix.

Hi, it's Aoibhlinn from the BBC World Service's "World Have Your Say" radio programme here.

Since some of you were discussing Naomi Wolf's appearance on our programme last week, we thought you might be interested to know we'll be featuring this "Chinese tiger mum" topic tonight at 6 p.m. (UK time). If you'd like to take part or contribute to the debate, I have set up a thread in the Classified: Non-Members/Media section which gives all our details.

Thanks
Aoibhlinn

@funnyperson

"In academic terms I see no difference between spending three hours at a play rehearsal or three hours practising the piano/violin. Both are equally 'useless' in the long term so the child should do what he/she prefers."

Please don´t confuse the subject. There is no need to insult music, it is not to blame for the neanderthal attitude of this women who clearly has no idea what it takes to play an instrument....that´s also a different discussion.

I find it saddening that two supposedly first class newspapers such as WSJ and The Times would entertain such a piece of absolute nonsense that I am absolutely sure has made more than one chinese mother´s blood boil!
Absolute nonsense.....I forced myself to read it so that I would be able to make a comment......although wanted to vomit from the first paragraph. The best part of all is when you discover that this women is a lecturer at one of America´s top universities...HA!!! TBH I couldn´t take it very serious:-))