From the Wall Street Journal: WHY CHINESE MOTHERS ARE SUPERIOR

[Medea]

I kept rereading it for irony, but there was none.

Why Chinese Mothers Are Superior

If everyone gets A, it is the average and becomes the new C and exams have to be harder!

on the allegations that athletes were using/forced to use pregnancy-followed-by-abortion to win competitions

It's currently marked as unconfirmed. I hope to heaven it's not true.

What I find odd about all the pushing is how unnecessary it all it.

We spent all our childhood playing (ok we did learn some instruments but never had enough talent to make it professionally) and yet academically we always achieved all As.

So, I can look back on a lovely childhood that did not in any way stop me doing brilliantly academically.

What is the point of pushing?

I feel tired reading about those poor childrens lives.. my dd has just come in from school, had dinner, turned on the tv and is veggin... sure she will do her homework later and then we will all usually watch a family dvd, and cuddle under the duvet.. lovely..FUN

and my dss both made it to uni, ok not straight AS!!! BUT HEALTHY HAPPY ADULTS..

sorry but the author seems a bit of a silly tiresome cow to me!!!!

Yes civil.

And what I find odd as well is what they're being pushed in. I can sort of understand pushing in maths + sciences ie things that if you do them well you can find your way into a lucrative career.

But the piano and violin? A tiny handful of people achieve fame and fortune in those areas, for the rest, working in orchestras and things aren't that well paid.

I also find it interesting that it always seems to be girls. Is that right? Is it because girls are of less worth, they need to prove themselves in other ways? Or is it something like young women in this country in the past had to do things like piano and singing and needlework to show off their wifely potential?

Agree with civil. I did learn an instrument to quite an advanced level. There were periods when I wanted to give up, and what did my parents do? They found me teachers better suited for me. I'm so glad they did that and I still enjoy playing. And they are Chinese. You can have achievement and enjoyment. Why choose?

Unless a parent got 100% themselves for every exam, how dare they say 'what happened to the 2%' when the DC gets 98%? It should always be do as I do and not do as I say.

Where is the emotional and social development?

There was a chinese girl at my sixth form who was obsessed with grades. She had average intelligence but worked really hard and copied other people's work if it meant her grades improved. She had no friends at all which was pretty sad, particularly as it was a boarding school. For all I know she is now incredibly successful in every way but I don't believe she can have been very happy at school.

Unfortunately, Chinese pupils are often the ones who say least in a lesson, don't offer an opinion even when coaxed and just want to get down to 'work'.

This makes it really difficult to assess them as individuals rather than grade machines.

I can remember when travelling in 1988 that Singapore and Japen where the places that held the high suicide rate amongst teens, due to the pressure that the parents put the pupils under to get straight "A's" The press where conducting reports about the pressure and the different dc that had passed over for fear of failure. This type of proud parenting can end in horrific results

Different people react in different ways to pressure.

My parents were pushy, with a particular emphasis on both us dds doing well at science and becoming doctors.

It worked for my sister, she studied hard, didn't do boyfriends and is now a succesful psychiatrist with a lovely fiance. I on the other hand rebelled and messed up. I got ok grades but my lack of emotional development has held back my career anyway.

I can understand why they were pushy especially now and I would say that my sister is the happiest.

My parents were not even a tiny bit as strict as that dragon mum and I wonder how I would have reacted with someone like her on my case.

It reminds me of a documentary I saw on vanasse MAE. That girl hadno chdhood and detests her mother now. Or ateast that us how it came across. Who knows what relationship these girls will have with their mother when older.

Puss, I have read Wild Swans - that's where I read about the Mao regime and children dobbing in their parents.

There is another book I have by a Chinese author, whose name escapes me (as does the title) - child vs child, she herself was ostracised and the other children encouraged to ostracise her as well by the stepmother - shocking story of emotional abuse, I thought but perhaps just "chinese parenting" at the extreme end. (I don't like it being called that either but just referring back to the article)

Jed's a wimp
:)

well obviously I didn't not read the book yet, but it looks like she has not set a high standard for herself. I mean, in publishing such a 'reality tv show of her life', what 'high literairy quality' is this? I have the feeling that she thought: okay what can I write to get the attention/ shock my public / make my book sell?
If true, her social skills are of course non-existant, also important in society I would say.
But who am I? as you can see, no chinese background here...just my comments... for what's worth.

Quite a shocking article. Were the Sunday Times just trying to rouse up some controversy for the benefit of their letters page, or what?

They wrote the article because the woman has written a book.

Hi Lamorna,

I'm assuming, however, that they don't do an article for every book that's published. Perhaps they routinely publish articles with controversial ideas? (I don't routinely buy the paper.)

I don't find it so shocking; many elements I find quite familiar. I come from an immigrant family and recognise the need for children of first generation imigrants to achieve academically. I also - in a toned-down way - agree with her central premise, that you as the parent need to believe in your kids and push them to do stuff they don't themselves yet believe or know they can do - that to fail to do that is letting your children down.

That said, the thing about the gymnasts makes me feel sick and I really, really hope it isn't true. :(

Hi Granted,

agree with her central premise, that you as the parent need to believe in your kids and push them to do stuff they don't themselves yet believe or know they can do - that to fail to do that is letting your children down.

I think we'd all agree with that. There might be disagreement over which 'stuff'(eg must be violin or piano and not,say, guitar regardless of the child's preference;) and what methods were ok. Children should always be encouraged, unremittingly, to do their best, but allowed not to be best at anything. By definition, only a few people can be best.

I'd also disagree that this was the central premise. The author certainly mentioned that she thinks Western parents expect less of their children. But she also mentioned that Chinese parents think their children owe it to them to be the best. She also narrated several tales of abusive behaviour towards her child without any indication that she regretted it. The central premise, from my reading, is that it's okay to abuse your child by threatening behaviour in order to force them to learn the stuff that you want them to learn (rather than the stuff that they might want to learn). This is what is shocking to me.

Re the need for children of immigrants to achieve academically: when you say that you recognise it, do you mean that you have seen it, or do you mean that it is a genuine need that must be met. If the former, then yes it is a well-known phenomenon. If the latter, I don't understand and would be grateful for an explanation. My own assumption would be that immigrants are by nature people with a certain amount of get-up-and-go, and sometimes the benefit of a good education or upbringing in their country of birth and already keen on education; that in their adopted country they often find themselves working below their skill and educational level and are naturally keen that their children take every educational opportunity available in order to find better jobs and lives for themselves in the new country. None of this requires threatening behaviour of the sort set out in the ST article. Indeed, if this sort of thing was common among immigrants, the article should have referred to it as such and not as Chinese.

[By the way, I'm not disagreeing here with the earlier poster who complained about the typecasting of Chinese parents, just citing what the author said.]

I definjitely believe she knows many other parents like this she mentions in her first paragraph Korean, Indian, Jamaican, Ghanaian, Irish parents who have the same attitude, and I think what all those people have in common is the experience of living in a foreign country (the US) where there are huge opportunities for anyone regardless of accent and irrespective of 'class' or ethnicity. If you can excel in school, you can get into a fabulous university and your future is bright indeed (I am probably an Irish version of the Chinese mother but I don't scream or threaten). I knew a good few others (Poles, Indians, Russians) who saw how to achieve the best academic results, realised they had willing DCs, or worked to make the DCs willing, and pushed hard.

This is probably as much as American story as it is a 'Chinese' one therefore.

(But the gymnast story rings true , and treatment of children in China is not one bit like the western approach.)

I agree fully with Amy Chua wrt assuming strength and not fragility in one's DCs however, when it comes to stating expectations.

Mmm, interesting. Although I think the list of things to do/not to do is very extreme -'don't let you child be in a school play?), I do know (very well) two children with Chinese parents, and a lot of what I read in the article does ring true - however, i think it comes from the dad more than the mum. My dd's friends are allowed to have sleepover, do social stuff, and definitely in school plays, but they are told to study/practice piano/hothoused quite a bit, and you know what - they do it and thrive. My dd's friend started piano later than my dd and was doing her grade 4 at the same time dd was doing grade 1! And she is lovely, well-behaved, still bolshy like all 10/11 year olds though.

But you know what, she has no love whatsoever for the piano, can't play a Christmas/fun tune, and finds it hard to recollect what she actually does play, which I find sad. Oh, by the way, my British born, Westernised child gave up piano after grade 1, and hours of tears and tantrums (mainly by me trying to persuade her to practice), so there may be a point here!

How can every kid be top of the class?

Hi Mathanxiety,

(I am probably an Irish version of the Chinese mother but I don't scream or threaten). I knew a good few others (Poles, Indians, Russians) who saw how to achieve the best academic results, realised they had willing DCs, or worked to make the DCs willing, and pushed hard.

If you don't scream and shout and your DCs are willing, even if you had to put a lot of effort into that, you're not in the same league as the author. Thank goodness.