From the Wall Street Journal: WHY CHINESE MOTHERS ARE SUPERIOR

[Medea]

I kept rereading it for irony, but there was none.

Why Chinese Mothers Are Superior

'Lamorna. It's not about forcing. It's about expecting your kids to do well and pushing them every step of the way. '

It isn't something I am prepared to do. I expect them to try their best. They have done well but it is because they want to, if they only do it because mother pushes I think the whole thing pointless. I lead by example, not push from behind.

Medea, thanks for that link, fascinating. (Love the irony of your username on this topic, btw...)

My best friend is British Chinese. Her father had very old-fashioned attitudes. As a result, she hasn't spoken to him since she was 18 and can't bear the idea of sending her own children to Chinese language classes, even though it would be very very useful these days with the way the economy is going. (I say language because I think it was Mandarin but am not entirely sure.)

Old fashioned when it suited him, mind you, he doesn't give a crap about his own elderly mother and as far as my friend knows hasn't been near her in years.

Like most things, a balance is best. I can see where my parents got a lot wrong and where they were right.

I haven't sent my kids to chinese school either. I still remember how bored I was there. You learn a word....then copy it out 100 times. Learn word 2....copy it out 100 times. I used to have to wake the poor boy up next to me. Think I lasted 6 weeks before I totally refused to go back.

That said, part of me regrets my parents letting me quit.

OK, here's a review of Chua's book (from which the essay was excerpted).

Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother

Apparently Chua's younger daughter, Lulu, ends up rebelling at age 13, and Chua has to start making compromises. Chua writes on the book jacket: "This was supposed to be a story of how Chinese parents are better at raising kids than Western ones. But instead, it's about a bitter clash of cultures, a fleeting taste of glory, and how I was humbled by a thirteen-year-old."

So she (and/or her publicist) chose an inflammatory excerpt to sell books. Good for them. I think I've gotten the gist, though: seems a fairly predictable plot

lived in Singapore where the majority are of Chinese origin and much of this is true but you can't say it's all Chinese mothers/families. Yes, the emphasis is huge on education, obedience and family . It's said that many Chinese parents see their children as an investment, the children are expected to look after their parents when they are old. The schools are much stricter than western schools (caning is still used) and the children spend a lot of their spare time in extra tuition. But again, things are changing and many modern Chinese parents don't want to bring their children up the way their parents did. You have to remember that these countries were desperately poor, with no welfare system like in the UK - they need their children to do well and think they are doing the best for them and you probably would to if you were them.

A PP says what if your child is 'mediocre' and not capable of a 'A' grade? I believe that' intelligent ' children can be 'made' rather than born. A child that is capable of a 'C' is also capable of an 'A' albeit with a lot of work most probably. What one person can learn most can, I know from experience. So many love to label children and inadvertently prescribe a ceiling on ability.

Whilst IMO much is extreme in this article instilling self discipline, good study habits & limiting mindless TV exposure are positive things to do.

The difference between the 'good' and the 'great' is often down to practice. Read Bounce, Matthew Syed for details, Carol Dweck etc. Can't sleep :)

Teaching your child to be mentally tough & to believe they 'can' are also great gifts to give them IMO

I don't get it. Assume the children are in china i.e. they aren't westerners to compete against. Surely not everyone can be in top set or be the top student, so how does the 'chinese mothering' method hold up to that.

DH got quite upset when he read this article. I acknowledge that there some things of worth in the article (aims, but not the means), but there is always is extreme views (just as there is in nearly all views).

Sorry I'm aware I'm aimlessly rambling

Actually talking about this reminds me of the Russell Peters sketch. I totally lmao at it. Funny cos its true.

Oh, make sure you watch until you get to the bit about Ryan, the angry kid. It totally explains the difference in a hilarious way.

Cortina it is not much use to say, well I am strict too and agree with her, apart from the bits where she says all of the things that everyone has objected to

I would also disagree that everyone is capable of excellence in all things, if only they work hard enough. Maths is one subject where there comes a point for most people where they just won't understand the concepts any more, no matter how hard they try. It all gets a bit mind-bending. To say that people who can do maths, or indeed anything, at a very high level are nothing special, is wrong. I really do believe that people have different talents and it is better to discover them and encourage them, than tell them they can't do what they are keen to do and must do something that potentially they dislike instead, because it is what the parents value. Why make a child work and work and work at something that they dislike and have no natural aptitude for, and deny them the chance to do things that they enjoy and that they are good at. It is baffling to me.

In a way it's a pointless conversation though, because everyone thinks that they are doing the best for their children, and so are unlikely to agree with a different method!

Agreed, Isn't.

My point is we are capable of far more than we might imagine & resilience, determination & hard work will take you far in life.

WRT SN children Amy Chua has a younger sister with Downs Syndrome who has won medals in the Special Olympics for swimming. So it seems as if she was encouraged in something that she was good at even though it wasn't academic.

The most academically successful members of my family were the least happy, and struggled most with life. One of them has significant socialising problems and is unlikely to ever get married. The other has died but always had a problem 'fitting in'. They both derive(d) pleasure from academic pursuits but have had awful problems at times in life. My brother has struggled to cope with not getting the success in the world of work and people that he achieved in the world of exams and tests. It endlessly frustrates him. And it makes me seriously question the 'over-the-top' praise of good marks.

Also, from my class at school 20 years ago, the most happy, rich and successful people are not the ones that were top of the class then.

In some ways I fear the day that the teacher suggests my dd goes in the gifted and talented group!!

So I believe things like this are most important.
Life is in the balance.
The whole secret of existence is to have no fear.Teach our children to be fearless. Then when they take on challenges - they will tackle them with great courage and strength.
The mind is everything. What we think we become.
Treat others as you would like to be treated yourself.

Without commenting on Chua's methods, regardless of ethnic background to become a professional musician or sportsman you do have to practice 3 hours or more a day- from a very young age.
My brother resented his musical education (a top British music school, 3,4, 5 hours of music a day on top of school hours) because it cost him time he wanted to spend on his sport (UK record holder, but missed out on olympic selection). He has only ever really slept 6 hours a night, from around age 5, and spends hours a day training.

I do think many 'western' parents allow their children to give things up far too easily- how many of us regret now giving up piano, dance, or a language because we couldn't see the long-term benefits when we were 13 and fed up of practicing or didn't want to be seen as uncool?

CaptainNancy, I like your name. But the problem is that there are only 24 hours in a day, and even if you cancel all playdates and sleepovers, children can't do academic work AND do music at a super-high level all day every day. If you make them practice 3 hours a day chances are their academic work will slide a bit, and vice versa. Who is to decee WHAT to make them persevere with? I think it's often foundational things that are brushed aside - grammar in languages, for example. That said, I also agree with Xenia - mirabile dictu - that teachers/parents are often reluctant to put in the extra effort themselves.

sorry - who is to DECIDE...

Amy Chua is being interviewed on Radio 5 Live sometime in the next 1.75 hours.

Oh my God. I never heard that before. I am lost for words.

Are doctor/lawyer/accountant truly the most prestigious and desirable professions?

My uncle is a successful corporate lawyer.
He has had a bee in his bonnet for decades about the need for SOMEONE in the family to marry a plumber. He reckons that would such a useful profession in the family mix.

We already have a surfeit of lawyers, a hairdresser, a civil engineer, an electrician, a religious minister, a fashion house buyer, a road-layer and a lifeguard.... Just missing that essential plumber :).