Please will you kindly support and advise me, as I try to help a friend sort out his home?

[EatingTheElephantInChunks]

Yesterday I started to try to help a friend sort out his home. If I tell you that it took me nearly 3 hours to clear a space on the bathroom floor about 3ft x 4ft, you will probably understand how things are. Today I did a little better. In about 2 hours I cleared another space the same size, which meant I could open a cupboard. Two shelves were almost empty, so I was able to clean those and use them for storage. I will carry on next time with the other 2 shelves and continue clearing the bathroom floor.

It was very satisfying to get rid of a whole binbag of rubbish yesterday and a half bag today, plus a bag and a half of recycling, and a small bag of confidential waste to shred. There is a folding storage crate of things to keep so far, but I'll go through that again to see if I've missed anything that should be thrown out or recycled.

My friend has got into this situation after many years of serious illness and close bereavements, has no family left and few friends, certainly not really close ones. He has been at the stage for several years where he doesn't have visitors. He needs many repairs and much decorating doing, and is getting to the stage where carers visiting would be helpful. I am hoping to get him to the stage where that will be possible. He is such a nice guy, and it's a shame that life has gradually got smaller and smaller for him over the years. It must be terribly lonely.

I feel honoured that he has trusted me with the truth of how things are. I can't talk to anyone IRL as I know it's essential to protect his privacy, and I have changed my username in case anyone makes the connections. I could do with some mumsnet wisdom and support! I have never felt such a sense of achievement over a bit of floorspace 3ft x 4ft, but equally the enormity of the task hit me.

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The author - writing under the pseudonym EatingTheElephantInChunks - claims and owns the copyright of all her posts dated on and after 14th August 2018 as her intellectual property and as a moral right and which are all her own individual and original work. Reproduction in whole or part or any other use is strictly prohibited without her prior written permission.

[Edited by MNHQ at posters request]

Hmm looks like a good airing an natural coverings are the way to go...

www.spab.org.uk/advice/stone-floors

You go girl blows the trumpet

Also I think i need a kitchen diagram I can't picture the layout in my head

Hi Ele. Sorry that yesterday was so hard. It is surprising the emotional toll it takes.
I had another go at my parents’ house this week, but seem to just be swirling things around from place to place rather than actually getting rid of them. I suppose it must be too early to do that. There is so much emotion attached to things and what they meant/mean to someone. You are doing so well.

I’m sure the floor will fry out the nice it is uncovered, old houses need air circulation. You are doing a fantastic job. I think that it’s possible you are being too caring of the sentimental value of the things you are disposing of. Is it not possible that getting rid of things that your friend hasn’t actually seen for years is actually relieving him of a burden? I’m going to say counselling again, I went when a long running work situation that I thought I was dealing with blew up suddenly in a huge emotional outburst, one hour of counselling helped me more than I could have imagined. It readjusted my perspective and my priorities.

Thanks, Pash. That link was useful. It also mentions salt deposits and I have noticed those. Yes, it's hundreds of years old. My original thought had been that - eventually! - most of the floor on ground level needed to come up temporarily and a damp proof membrane put down, but that link advises not and I can fully understand the reason why. Like Chem also says, hopefully once the air is circulating again, there's as little as possible on the floor and it has had chance to fully dry out, things should improve a lot. I think it's always been a bit damp and things couldn't be left on the floor or next to walls for long. A damp proof course was put into the walls years ago and worked with them for a time but it then failed, the guarantee wasn't followed up with life the way it was or the installer stopped trading, perhaps both, I'm not sure. Something for the future anyway as the whole ground floor would need to be relatively decent and at the moment that still seems a long way off! I couldn't go yesterday in the end because of pressures at home and, although frustrating, it was probably a good thing, yes. I certainly don't want or intend to give up, but reaffirming to myself that I can do seems to help. I feel a sense of commitment, responsibility and I'm probably more than a tad stubborn - aka bloody minded - at times too. I don't want to let my friend down after building his hopes up and I don't want it to beat me either. But I'd like to put in an order for those big hugs and large gin, if that's not too greedy?

@1vandal2

Also I think i need a kitchen diagram I can't picture the layout in my head

Thanks for the trumpeting, vandal, and - intentionally or unintentionally - this did make me laugh too. I thought, 'what does vandal think this is, a parking or neighbour dispute thread in AIBU?! Nearly three years in and vandal asks for a diagram?!'

You’re an absolute trooper @EatingTheElephantInChunks.

Would a dehumidifier help? We have a 300+ year old house and have two which have to be emptied daily. We picked them up from Facebook marketplace so didn’t buy new but they are on 24/7 and still going strong.

Thank you, weasel. I've been thinking of you and wondering how you were getting on. Perhaps there is never a good time, but if it feels too soon then it possibly is, although I found it's also important not to leave it too long either. It's difficult because you care and you want to do the right thing. A bit at a time. Be kind and gentle to yourself on the journey.

Thanks, Chem. I have mixed feelings, I suppose - but you're right, I need to focus less on the sadness involved in my friend's life and treasured things that have been ruined and lost, and more on the lifting of the burden and gateway to an easier life for him. Home the way it is must be a terrible weight on his shoulders and that weight includes the ruined things and everything I'm able to get rid of, I suppose. I hope you're doing well now. I haven't ruled some counselling out - thanks for another nudge in that direction.

Thanks, Guardian. You know, that might not be a bad idea at all - I hadn't thought of that! - for now while I'm exposing damp areas and for the winters. Condensation is a problem too, especially on single-glazed original windows. Would you mind giving the make and model of your dehumidifiers, and a rough cost - or what would you recommend, any general tips and advice please?

Of course you can have both (I've been told I give excellent hugs!) Hugs and Gin just for you Ele. 🐘🤗🤗🐘🐘

@Chemenger

I’m sure the floor will fry out the nice it is uncovered, old houses need air circulation. You are doing a fantastic job. I think that it’s possible you are being too caring of the sentimental value of the things you are disposing of. Is it not possible that getting rid of things that your friend hasn’t actually seen for years is actually relieving him of a burden? I’m going to say counselling again, I went when a long running work situation that I thought I was dealing with blew up suddenly in a huge emotional outburst, one hour of counselling helped me more than I could have imagined. It readjusted my perspective and my priorities.

Ele I think Chemenger is on the right track here.

I've had to undertake two horrendous and emotional house clearances due to bereavement. Dealing with the sentimental stuff, ruined items, paperwork, clutter and dirt was heartbreaking - mentally and emotionally taxing. I think I have a glimmer of insight into what this must be like for you.

I would say based on this experience that you do not need to sort through ruined papers, sodden and rotten materials. Nor should you worry about recycling for these things. The best thing for you, your friend and the house is to shovel them into bags and bin them untouched. Nature has done your sorting for you, they are irretrievable. I don't see how it would help your friend to see these devastated items. But on a practical level it would help him so much to have this decaying burden taken away.

Even the less-devastated items could be binned without going through them. Whatever is in amongst them that might be of use or value, can you let it go? Where it is at the moment it is serving no purpose, it cannot be used. Binning without sorting is maintaining the status quo as far as value and usefulness of those items is concerned - but has the huge benefit of making space for your friend and making space more quickly.

I wonder if part of the urge to make good and save things is connected at some level to the desire to make good for your friend his losses and grief?

Just my thoughts, I don't think there's a right or wrong way through this.

Keep on chunking, you are doing wonderful work

Thank you, Pash - very generous of you!
And thank you, Heels - a lot of food for thought for me there. I will come back on it.

Yesterday heavy rain stopped play in the kitchen as, because of the conditions and limited space, I'm relying at the moment on being able to be in and out repeatedly, taking things out to sort and dispose of and getting fresh air. It also seemed best to let the areas of floor I have cleared and sprayed dry out a bit until I stand on them to do more. Instead I concentrated on a very large and crammed full chest of drawers in my friend's bedroom. This was a chunk I'd meant to do quite a while ago but it kept being put off for various reasons and so it was good to finally give it the time. After I had cleared, sorted and cleaned all the drawers, only about a third of one had anything in it and the rest were completely empty! Now they can be used for things which actually need to be in them and so I started to put wanted items away from the bedroom, which in turn cleared some floor and drawers-top spaces. Storage space is a problem and so by clearing out and making the most of what there actually is, some of the things I'm finding and saving will finally have a rightful and accessible place to go instead of being lost or getting ruined in the mountains. What is that expression I remember my late mother occasionally saying to me: 'a place for everything and everything in its place'? I'm not sure I'd go that far in my own life, let alone for my friend, but I'm heading in that very general direction. I'm hoping to do a bit more on the kitchen today, although it was perhaps no bad thing to have had a bit of an enforced break from it.

One of my favourite phrases is 'storage solutions'

A tidy house has great storage and you're now getting to the stage where a crap load of essentially junk has been got rid of and the light is shining from the end of the tunnel.

Thank you, vandal and I now know where to come for advice on the storage front!

The problem with my friend's house is, like many old houses, as previously mentioned there is little storage. I suppose people used to have less stuff back then. I know my friend is at the sharp end, but as long as people had the essentials of course, the having less stuff was probably a very good thing, as weasel and others note in pps. Not just for us as individuals and families but for our planet too. We are not just working and stressing and missing out on time with our loved ones and getting into debt in some cases for the essentials of a roof, food, light, heating and so on - but for more and more 'stuff' we really do not need in many cases.

It will come as no surprise that this particular elephant, like all elephants, is a friend of David Attenborough.

Rain held off yesterday and so I was able to tackle two chunks in the kitchen. I did ok on the getting rid of stuff front: eleven bags of rubbish, four bags of recycling, a bit of confidential paperwork for a bonfire and only ten small items kept - and one of those was a storage box! I hope I get nods of approval at least from vandal and Heels for that and, with Heels' last post doing the rounds in my head, I was a little firmer.

I started with the hell that was getting right down to floor level in front of the fireplace and up to the table. It was another case of double mask, triple gloves, hair up, plastic apron on, and jeans tucked into wellies this time. The garden shovel and disinfectant came out again at the end. The storage box is very sturdy and just needs a vacuum and disinfect so was worth keeping rather than having to buy something similar again. Only a couple of small items could be kept from this area as it was very damp and moth ridden. The old me, at the start of the journey, would have kept things like toys, sheets and curtains to wash repeatedly, disinfect and donate to charity or make use of here. The new me realises that, in that condition and with so much else to do, it really is too much work and they need to just be got rid of. With the advice from the thread after earlier hellish floor clearing, although it was still hard and unpleasant work, I didn't let it get to me anywhere near as much this time. The only exception was one photo in a completely ruined album of photos. The album must have been in a bag or box but fell out into the damp of the floor at some point. The rest of the photos didn't matter really, but it was a great shame one was beyond saving.

Pp continued - the next paragraph wouldn't type properly in the box and the cursor was jumping all over the place which I've never had before and was all a bit strange:

With that chunk of floor done, it means that the floor is now clear in front of the back door and in a path from in front of the sink unit up to the corner, along the fireplace wall into the next corner, and along the dresser wall up to half way along the freestanding base unit. My second chunk yesterday was that base unit, but that is for a separate post written with a strong cup of coffee or later with a large gin - and I advise that for when reading it too! The alcove on the fireplace wall is still to be done but that all looks to be in storage boxes or bags on the floor and so should be easier. My next chunk is probably going to be under the table.

There's still so much to be done, but like vandal said in a pp, I do think there is light at the end of the tunnel, in the kitchen at least.

I moan a lot at my husband for his mild hoarding traits, born from poverty growing up and maintained by the “that should come in handy” school of thinking. I often say that space and light are more valuable than the clutter he wants to keep. He is coming round

Well done Ele, glad you're feeling able to just dispose of the ruined things now, it will definitely make the rest of the kitchen easier. I would suggest a full head scarf for the under the table section, I think it could be scary. Keep chunking.

Wonderful progress I'm in awe of how you tackled those really difficult bits in the kitchen. It gives me chills just thinking about it.

Hello again everyone and thank you to weasel, Pash and Heels Good luck with your 'he is coming round,' weasel! It makes me itch, Heels, following the Freestanding Base Unit Experience, never mind the chills! Your headscarf idea is a good one, Pash, and one I wish you had mentioned before the FBUE, from which I may never recover. But should I tie it under the chin like Margo, behind the neck like Barbara or on top of the head like Hilda? It is a dilemma.

Ok, better get this over with.

The Sorry and Sobering Tale of the Freestanding Base Unit Experience: A Horror Story

It looked quite innocent from the outside. Just a painted wooden double cupboard with drawers over and a few abandoned moth cocoons and cobwebs on the outside. It gave little hint of The Horrors Within. Think Alfred Hitchcock's The Birds but with moths: The Moths. If ever there was a lesson in not leaving opened packets of foodstuffs like biscuits, pasta, porridge and breadsticks shut up in a cupboard for fifteen years, it was this. I have never seen anything like it outside a bat colony cave. Cocoons were in layers, centimetres deep on the bottom of plates and every surface. Moths flew at me. Shelves were covered in piles of something I do not want to google, like very large specs of black dust. Know that my dreams since have included being chased by hordes of giant killer moths and being trapped inside a giant cocoon, unable to fight my way out. Then there were The Spiders; one friendly Barry - remember him, of the staircase? - this was not. I am one deeply traumatised elephant. And of course there still has to be the sequel: Return of The Moths, The Revenge - because one of the drawers will not open. It doesn't seem to be because of damp or something jammed. I think the moths are in there, holed up, holding it shut, waiting for me.

Nelly, remember that bonfire you planned for paperwork? I suggest you add the Moth Kingdom to it.

Yikes! Think I'm with Paws on this one.....although you probably can't really do that, but you could probably find a replacement dresser without too much pain.
I go for the Barbara knot usually, although if your head is small enough/scarf is long enough the Hilda/Nora is nice and non moving! 🧹(closest I can get to a giant fly swat)