7 yr old wants to go to school... Reassurance please!

[Psychomumma]

Apart from a term at nursery (which she can't remember), my eldest daughter, like her three younger siblings, has never been to school. However, she has friends, cousins, etc who do, whom she sees regularly, who talk to her about school - naturally! I have no problem with that. However, every now and then she brings up the idea of school, we talk about it a bit, I explain some of the reasons (that she is able to comprehend, at 7) why I don't want her to go ... and it ends with her saying that she would like to go to school .

Now, I do not believe at all that my 7 yr old is better qualified than me to judge whether school is the best place for her to be at this point in her life. I am 95% certain that HE is far better for my children. However, it still hurts that she doesn't want to be HE'd (despite having no idea what the alternative is like).

Has anyone had similar experiences? How did you feel about/deal with it? Did your dc change their minds eventually? (NB: I'm asking for advice from other HE'ers... having had plenty of advice from non-HE'ers to send my kids to school on previous occasions, ta v much...)

"but flamingo if a child at school hated it, it is extremely unlikely that as an adult they would turn around to you as a parent and say that they deeply resented you for your decision not to let them leave school and HE"

So that makes it moral, does it, the fact that your child, once an adult, won't chastise you for not doing something they probably didn't even know was an option?

flamingo are you suggesting that it isn't moral to send your child to school?

I am not a home educator, but I do know a lot about the subject - don't know whether that makes my views welcome or not.

For what it's worth, I do thing people of 7 can have very carefully thought out and worthwhile opinions. You should take credit for the open minded attitude you have given her, and the fact that she feels free to express opinions which she must know you disagree with. However I do think it's important not to disregard her views - surely doing that would completely negate the self-confidence and maturity you have instilled in her.

HOWEVER, she is only 7, so she won't have all the facts and experience at her disposal that you have, so you should have more "votes" in this situation than she does. Could you talk to your local schools about a "trial" month at school? You would have to think carefully about what you would do if she loves it, though.

I think any child who is totally miserable at school, and makes their parents aware of it, would be entitled to resent it if their parents didn't make an effort to do something to help the situation. I don't think they would specifically object to their parents not switching to HE - after all in many cases that's not practical, and also probably not what the child wants. What a lot of unhappy schooled children want is for school to be "fixed" in some way, to get rid of the problems. That could be the parents making the school deal with the issues, or a change to another school.

But, if parents do nothing, then yes the child will probably resent it.

mondaymonday - no, I'm suggesting that it isn't moral to make your child do something they are seriously unhappy doing based on the premise that they probably won't tell you they wish you hadn't when they have grown up, which is what you seem to be suggesting.

Parent forces child to be home educated - cruel because child might be cross with parent when they are grown up

Parent forces child to go to school - ok because child won't be cross with parent when they are grown up because, um, I don't know why - you tell me. Because they didn't know HE existed? Because it was a mainstream choice rather than an alternative one?

"Has anyone had similar experiences? How did you feel about/deal with it? Did your dc change their minds eventually? (NB: I'm asking for advice from other HE'ers... having had plenty of advice from non-HE'ers to send my kids to school on previous occasions, ta v much...)"

Those were my questions: thanks to those who answered.

Lilyfire, FlamingoBingo and Shinynewthings: I will try posting the same query on the Early Years site, thanks.

there are no rules about under what circumstances a child might resent a parent for not listening to their views and wishes during their childhood, so asking me such a specific question is pointless. However, I do think it is more likely that this would be the case if a child was to want to go to school and wasn't allowed, rather than the other way round. If you or the OP doesn't believe this then fine, it is just my opinion

OK psychomumma - missed the fact that you wanted validation, not input. Hope you find it.

For what it's worth, for others who are interested in this debate, if I was a person prone to resentment, I would resent my parents for some - please note some - elements of my education at home. Similarly my older brother does resent our parents for some elements of his extremely expensive public school education. Not sure what this proves - except that people can resent practically anything if they want to.

Totally agree seeker. I have long given up trying to predict whether my children will resent my decisions later in life or not. I hope not. I am doing the best I can.

I suspect psychomumma wants people to agree with her rather than help her examine her beliefs. Never mind.

When I raised some of the issues with my mother she listened, apologized, but said "I did the best I could with what I knew at the time"

I think that is really all anyone can do.

Absolutely.

' "I did the best I could with what I knew at the time"

I think that that is fair enough-I accept a lot of my mother's decisions on that basis, but I wouldn't accept the fact that she didn't let me go to school because of her beliefs when she knew at the time that I wanted to go.

e.g. when I was young I was desperate to be a Brownie.

a,There wasn't a local Brownie group, we had one car and my father was still out at work with it at Brownie meeting time. I was fine with that-there was no way of getting to one-if they would have taken me.

b, a Brownie group started when I was within 6 months of being at the upper age limit. My mother explained that it wasn't worth buying the uniform and joining with such a limited time-I could understand and was fine with that.

c,if there had been a Brownie group in the village, with space when I was the right age but my mother had said that I couldn't join because she didn't approve of the Scout/Guide movement I wouldn't be fine-I would have been deeply resentful.

d, if there was a group and my mother said that I couldn't go because it was going to make things difficult with my brother's activities/bedtime -I would have been deeply resentful.

(I expect group is the wrong word for Brownies-apologies but I can't think of the right one).

No one can possibly answer fully-no one has been doing it long enough (if they have they don't post)to be judged by their DC as an adult. Posters on here judge their parents a lot and find them wanting (particularly PIL!) and yet I expect that many of the parents feel they were doing their best for their DC at the time.
Only time will tell. I don't think that you can go far wrong if you listen to your DC and support them-problems come when you try and get someone, with a very different character to your own, to conform to your views.

For a home ed thread, it appears I am guessing [by the tone of the answers] from one perspective that you have had a lot of answers from non home edding families .

I home ed my 7 yr old dd, who also has younger siblings, so I understand your position. Similar to mine.
Now I also understand that you probably agonised and deliberated over your decision to home ed and take it seriously. Also having to put up with the many opinions of mainstream parents and relatives who send their kids to school.

You are of course correct that you know best for your child, and that you have many reasons for home edding. She is probably listening to all the fun things the kids tell her about school. Next time her school educated friends are round ask them about the things they dont like about school so your daughter can hear those answers too.

I am going through the same, my daughter plays with neighbours who go to school and asks why she cannot go. I explain our reasons and ask which she would prefer..She answers that she likes to be able to have our days unplanned so if it is sunny we can go to the beach or the woods and learn there etc. School ed children miss out on so much by largely being confined to the class rooms.

There are many reasons why people home ed, and you should not feel you have to answer questions on here asking why you do, it is enough that you state you do and want to continue doing so. There will always be people agreeing with and arguing against home ed.

Have confidence in yourself and that you know what is best for your child.

There are support groups out there, have you contacted education otherwise?

I still don't think that the problem is now, when the DC is 7 yrs old and you can do what you like, it is not even so much at 17yrs -it is more at 27yrs when you are really judged-on hindsight.
Ask yourself these questions:
How well do you get on with your mother?
Do you see eye to eye on the main points?
Do you agree with the way that you were brought up?
Do you think that your mother made the right decisions for you when you were young?
Does your mother understand you?

If you can answer positively to all those questions then there is a good chance that all will work out for the best. If there is a lot of negativity, then I think there may be problems. You think your mother 'wrong' and yet your DC is supposed to think you 'right'. Your DC might be far more like your mother than like you.
My team sport loving mother had to put up with 3 DCs who hated, or were indifferent, to team sports. She now has her sports mad grandchildren. It makes her laugh to know the hours and hours I have put in on the sidelines watching my DSs play football in the mud, rain and wind when I don't understand the game and don't want to! My FIL, who was an avid Scout in his youth had 2 DSs who wouldn't even contemplate joining the Cubs, never mind the Scouts and yet his grandson has gone from Beavers to Venture Scouts and still helps with leading.
If you can't stand your MIL, you ought to bear in mind that your DD might be a mini MIL! I tell my non reading DSs that I am really hoping for a bookish little granddaughter! You can't know what your DC is going to turn out like. The one thing that you can be sure of is that they are not a clone with you. They may agree with everything you do and say but they may be complete opposites.

I think it very important to take a DC seriously and listen to them-not brush them off with how much better to be out and about with mum than in the classroom. I had every weekend and long holidays out with mum and I wouldn't have been impressed with that argument-not if it meant for ever having younger siblings in tow. My idea of bliss was a quiet classroom and books and a pencil. We are all different.

By all means-do it your way- but listen to your DC. I would have thought that by 7yrs you could have got a piece of paper, drawn a line down the middle and done pros and cons. Bearing in mind that the DC might prefer the pros. I don't see what you have to lose by letting a DC try school, if they feel they want to-you are at least sure then that which ever way they chose you have got it right for them (it doesn't have to be right for you).

I don't have the confidence, as a parent, to say 'I know what is best for my DC'-it is possible that I don't.

I meant -DSs not reading for pleasure-they can all read!!! It is hard for a bookworm mum to have DCs who don't enjoy books!

You know you've done a good job when everyone in the family is able to express their own interests and follow their own path .

I think that sums it up scattyspice. You have to recognise they are all different. You have to use your imagination to see that your DC might have opinions that are radically different from yours.

e.g.FaithinQuestion obviously has issues with school and says

'Next time her school educated friends are round ask them about the things they dont like about school so your daughter can hear those answers too.'

What would she do with a friend like me who would say school dinners (you can take packed lunch these days) and mental arithmatic tests?

The adult that I quoted, who was HEed and had to leave home to get educated, was particularly scathing about her mother who thought education should all be about having a wonderful carefree life in the countryside.She didn't want that, but her mother couldn't or wouldn't see it.

I think that you have to get right outside the box and not make the huge assumption that the things that you see as fact may not be a fact to the DC.

There was a sad thread recently (I thought it was going to be light hearted) what would you do differently to your mother? I can't think of much, because my mother always listened to me and didn't ride roughshod over me, telling me what I should think or that I was too young to have an opinion.

I once had a really important question that I wanted to put to DS1 when he was 9yrs old. I didn't trust myself to ask him because I wanted one particular answer and, even if I tried to be impartial, I was afraid that body language would give me away. DCs always try to please the parent. I got a good friend (who had no vested interest in the reply)to take him out and just casually, while chatting, bring it into conversation in such a way that he didn't realise he was being asked a question. He agreed with me and I had the satisfaction of knowing that his arm hadn't been twisted.

I would suggest to OP that she gets someone, who has no interest either way, to chat to DD (without mother)about HE and school. If the DD chats happily about what she thinks she would like about school, but is also enthusiastic and likes a lot about HE then I think you are fine as you are. If you have a rather sad little DD who says she would like to go to school but 'mummy doesn't like it',then I think you should take it seriously.

sorry -arithmetic

"I did the best I could with what I knew at the time"

I think this is all any parent can do. It's something that runs along the same lines as I've heard home-educating parents say when they realise how much better their child is out of school. That if they had known about HE earlier they would have withdrawn the child sooner. But they did the best they could with what they knew at the time.

"You know you've done a good job when everyone in the family is able to express their own interests and follow their own path "

I agree with this but think a 7yo is still young enough to need some guidance and may not be aware of the consequences of a particular path they might choose.

Of course they need guidance-a parent is failing in their job if they don't give any.I can say 'no,' if I don't think it appropriate but at least I have lots of reasons, that I can give them for saying 'no'. It doesn't mean that it is no for ever-it very often becomes age appropraite to say 'yes'. I have a lot of life experience and therefore I can use it to the benefit of my DCs but I still think that the DC should be involved in the decision process.
It seems all to often that a DC is 'mature and sensible' if they express themselves in a way that agrees with the parent. As soon as they have an opinion that differs ,the age card is played and they are 'too young'. I don't think you are ever too young to hold an opinion, and while a parent may have good reasons for not acting on it they should take it into account and review it at a later date.

OP's DD wants to go to school-she hasn't been convinced by Psychomummas reasons for HE. At 7 yrs Psychomumma can easily say that she is too young to know what it all means, I can have a lot of sympathy with that reply-I think we all do it. However if her DD continues to be unimpressed with her reasons for HE I think that at some point, the start of year 6 at the very latest, she need to acknowledge that DD wants to learn in a different way and give school a trial.
Until she is 18yrs OP can insist she knows best-but I would be very worried about what DD thinks by then and what DD thinks when she is 27, 37 or 47yrs.
If I were to start 2 threads
1.my mother understands me and has always listened to me.
2.my mother doesn't understand me and has never listened to me
I bet I could predict that the second one fills up at least twice the speed! I dare say that some of the parents from 1.would be lovely and be completely mystified-saying 'I gave them a wonderful childhood'!

My idea of getting a completely unbiased friend to chat to DD and find he real feelings is a good one. It isn't even as if you have to act on the result because DD shouldn't realise, if done with sensitivity, that she is even being asked a question. I would recommend that approach to anyone.

If an adult can look back and say that they had the freedom to express themselves and follow their own path-then the parent has done a good job IMO.

Sorry for mistakes-typing at speed.

Sorry I was typing at speed-I meant that some of the parents from 2 would be lovely people who didn't understand where they went wrong! We as readers might actually think thae parent right and the poster the difficult one! It is all very subjective.

Time I went out-my mistakes are getting worse. I hope you get the gist of my somewhat garbled post! If not- ignore.

I don't think it's necessary for op dd to be convinced by her mother. It would be nice but not necessary if her mother believes HE is best for her dd at the moment. Whatever is decided in the future is something else. At the moment op feels HE is the better option.

As for how you regard your parents at various ages - I thought my parents had made wrong choices for me regarding schools. I thought that in my teens and 20s. By the time I had my own children, had got old enough to understand my parents I could see why they made the choices and realise I would probably have done the same in their position. They did the best they could for the situation they were in.

I would not make a decision for my child based on what their opinion of me might be when they get older. I would make it based on what I thought was best for them.

"I don't think it's necessary for op dd to be convinced by her mother"

I mean at the present time. In the future it might be different. I agree that if dd still feels the same then it should be re-assessed periodically.