Once again thinking of HE... please talk to me! (Long sorry!)

[fuzzpig]

Today I completely failed to get my DCs to school. Both have the odd day when they just refuse. DS (5, yr1) in particular - he gets very clingy and upset. DD (7, yr3) is having a bullying issue and that's what got her upset today, although she would've gone in if DS had, I think.

I've lurked/posted here under various names since I joined MN around 2010, and both DH and I are very pro-HE. We've read a bit about it and made plans about how we'd approach it, I even had plans for projects etc! We decided to give nursery/school a go though, and DD flourished immediately (she's very social... unlike us!) so we put HE plans on hold with the agreement that we would absolutely HE if we felt it best. This turned out to be a blessing as DH got an injury and lost his job, I had to go to work but then I got very ill - I'm now disabled with a variable, unpredictable condition. There's no way we would've managed if they weren't at school.

Things went pretty well until this September when DD moved to juniors (separate school, not primary) - it's huge (150 pupils per year) and she was overwhelmed. She has friends (barring this 'frenemy') but just found it too much really, she became even more anxious - she's always been sensitive - and wasn't sleeping. She has a referral for this as it does affect many aspects of her life. Anyway sometimes she would have to be peeled off me at the classroom door, which had honestly never happened before. BUT academically it has been surprisingly good for her - she's blossomed under the clearer structure and adores homework and spelling tests, finally enjoying and making progress in maths etc.

DS, who loved reception, is sometimes completely refusing to even get dressed now. Due to my health I simply cannot force him or 'drag' him to school (and we have no car to bundle him into). I tried once and really suffered for it. When I ask, he says it (the school day) 'takes too long', and he misses me. He also hates assembly and says it hurts his ears (he does cover his ears at loud noises, and has had congestion/hearing loss in the past so this is feasible, but school don't seem convinced). He is youngest in the year too, and has a significant speech disorder although that is gradually improving.

Anyway, both schools are very supportive and understanding and we've always been very open about or struggles. I have arranged a meeting with the infants SENCO tomorrow and am awaiting a call from the welfare officer at the juniors, both because they want to see how else they can help. I'm in a bad phase healthwise - not been to work for a few weeks - and I'm scared of their attendance dropping - I doubt the EWO would be so sympathetic as the schools themselves!

So back to today - I just wasn't up to the battle of getting them there. They both visibly relaxed when I agreed, and were very happy to do "school at home". We've had a great day - a bit of maths, reading, spelling etc, and DD even spent well over an hour enthusiastically making a poster to show her class, after reading more about a topic they'd briefly touched on at school. She said "I've set myself some homework!" and was so happy doing it! The only thing they've grumbled about is lack of telly (which we don't have during the school week anyway).

I'm just confused really and I have no idea what to do. Most of the time they are fine but when they have a bad day it's not just bad but impossible! But I was wary of making this too fun (hence not putting DVDs on - which I would, if we were actually HEing) in case the school refusal (if I can even call it that, when it's not constant) gets worse because they want to stay home more. And I'm worried that the fact I have idly dreamed of HE for years will cloud my judgement if it's not actually the best thing to do in this instance, IYSWIM. If they were refusing every day then it would be a much easier choice! DH (who due to his past is much angrier about this other girl upsetting DD) is very gung-ho and "we will make it work" but although I am yearning to just take them out, my head is more powerful than my heart.

I'm reasonably confident they could learn a lot at home (not that I'm saying it'd all be easy like today!), but there's the practical worries - money?! DH's job is low income at the moment, and without my extra pittance from part time work we would struggle (although things might get easier as our rent will decrease if we get housed - currently on register... which incidentally would mean we'd have to change schools anyway, because there's virtually no council housing in this relatively affluent part of town). Because of money and physical constraints I'm worried their world would just become TOO small, if that makes sense? Even continuing things like Brownies would be a strain on our wallets. And selfishly I worry what effect it would have on me - I need, need, NEED downtime both mentally (I have AS) and physically, and would lose confidence without my job I think. There's no family who could help really and with both of us being very shy, we don't have a support network per se and would really struggle to make one. Today I've got by because we are literally 'playing school', so they've had playtimes when teacher can have a rest - can't see that working long term. Getting enough exercise is a concern too, I worry enough as it is because I currently can't manage to visit the park after school etc and we don't have a garden to run around it (again this will hopefully change with council housing).

Oh gosh this is ridiculously long, apologies. I have just had all these thoughts going round and round for weeks/months now and I'm hoping for some wise words from you lovely people! :)

When a gp told me that my 6 year old was showing signs of clinical depression :(
I knew it deep down but to hear a hcp say it......devastating.

Oh Baddz that must have been awful :(

My DCs' mental health is something I'm very concerned about; I've had issues with mine for my whole life.

Strangely I was just browsing old threads on here and I happened upon one I'd commented on in September. I'd said that, unlike DD who had just started at the huge junior school, my DS was happy in school and seemed to have settled in. And if we did HE DD we would probably keep him in school. How has it gone so wrong in just a few months?!

Which makes me wonder - if it's come on quickly can it also be solved quickly?

Of course it could even just be that he's needing to sit still more now he's in KS1 - the school do continue play based learning throughout KS1 so they are a lot less structured than some schools, but still maybe it's too much. It's so hard to tell when he doesn't talk about it really. At least with DD I know what she's feeling and worrying about.

My ds2 was the same....but then we had a succession of traumatic events and he got very poorly himself.
It's all gone downhill from there.
Amazing how quickly it can happen.

Just something to think about- you say "I'm so confused because 99% of the time he is fine and happy while there"

Bear in mind that most people aren't fine and happy 100% of the time wherever they are. Maybe you're beating yourself up too much about the 1%?

I know there's loads of other stuff too- I have read the thread- but that just struck me.

Hi fuzzpig. My situation is slightly different in that dh earns a decent wage so my wages were supplementing them and paying for 'treats' so it wasn't so bad when I had to stop working. My dd was in reception year and was being picked on. She came home physically injured a number of times. There was verbal bullying too (who would've though a group of 4 year olds could be capable of that!) Her personality completely changed, she went from being outgoing, confident and happy to being sad, withdrawn and clingy. Then her behaviour at home started to mimic that of the bullies. She would hit her siblings, pull their hair, scratch them, shout at them. She became very angry. She stopped sleeping. To look at her was like looking at another child. She looked exhausted and had big sores around her mouth, I guess where she was feeling so run down. She is one of the youngest in the year and just not equipped mentally to deal with it all.

so we took her out of school and are HE her. Not forever, we'll see how things go and might try her in September again. My elder two are at school and enjoy it and always have. The 'me' time is a massive issue for me. She does tend to trail around after me in the house I worry this will hinder her independence. But, before she went to school she was really independent so I think she's still building up her confidence after what was a traumatic experience for her.

My local HE group is full unfortunately but we manage to do a fair amount. During school hours we go to softplay or the library or to friend's homes. Unfortunately the only other children we see are 2/3 years younger than her but then after school she goes to swimming lessons, gymnastics and ballet amd we have my other dc for company and their friends often come to tea so always lots of children in and out of the house. I have friends with children who are dd's age and we often meet up with them on the weekend for cinema trips or trips to the local farm.

It isn't too expensive tbh. The library is free, museums free. Gymnastics is £4 a week, ballet £4 and swimming £5 so they're the things that hit us the most. We go the kids screenings at the local cinema on the weekend, they show older films for £2. Odeon and vue and possibly cineworld do this if you have any nearby. The farm is a donation. I drive luckily. What are your local facilities like? Sorry I'm rattling on a bit, trying to give you a full picture.

In terms of learning I've been lucky as dd loves to learn (if it was my other I think we would've struggled with this as they're very reluctant to study!) Your dc sound like they enjoy it too. I've bought a load of books and games from the same scheme the school uses because she was already familiar with them and because she'll be up to date when she goes back. We also learn through play and being out and about eg adding up the money to pay in a shop.

As I said, I really struggle for 'me' time (but then dd is a little younger than your two, they might be happy to play alone whilst you grab a cuppa and have a break?).

When I read your first post I was going to suggest you take ds out of school until, say, Sept and see how things go from there but I've seen that it'd be difficult to get back into the same school so I really don't know what to suggest sorry. I think my advice would be to continue the way you are atm with the help and support from school. I think you'll instantly know when (if) it's time to make an immediate decision to take him/them out. In my case I was like you, pondering it for weeks, when one day I just thought that's it,this is too much for a 4 year old to take and I withdrew her immediately. The school were surprisingly understanding and have said she can come back whenever (but this school is undersubscribed).

Anyway, hope some of that helps you any questions, please feel free to ask.

Also, on the flip side, dd2 went through a difficult time at school, she was also verbslly and physically bullied and was miserable, coupled with the fact that her teacher that year wasn't very nice, but for some reason it just seemed to be easier to deal with and was sorted pretty quickly. I guess because she was a little older than dd3 is now. But with dd2 it didn't seem to impact on her whole life iyswim. And we pushed through and she came out the other side back to her usual happy self. She is confident and sociable and not affected long term by any of it. She loves school. With her, I never even considered HE, I just knew she'd get through it. I think sometimes you just have a gut instinct and know, maybe you haven't reached that point yet but keep going and you will .

Hello Fuzz

I can't add too much more to what has been said already as there are some really good posts already Saracen and Ommm & of course others.

but would like to add the point about them not seeming unhappy particularly, or usually.
H.ed doesn't have to be the result of unhappy children or something wrong with the school. Sometimes it can be just what is needed for a particular time.
It doesn't even have to be throughout their schooling, it can be as temporary as you like.

DD is more than likely going to school in september after 3 years H.ed, she left to pursue a dream and looks like she's achieved it now.
We have had fun, the odd argument but overall it has been great, but time to move on hopefully.

Thanks everyone. It's really helping me to talk this all through - it's constantly on my mind ATM!

Hakluyt you may be right there, and that's the main reason I am struggling so much with a decision. Sometimes he does skip happily in without looking back. The teacher did say that yesterday he complained about missing me but apparently that's unusual. But then he has sometimes said things that the teacher hasn't known about (but then you can't expect them to with a class full so I'm not cross about that) - eg being upset and crying at carpet time.

I'm really unsure though anyway, my heart and my head are battling it out and I think they will be for a while. DH is similarly unsure (so we are very much on the same page which helps).

It's good to think more about the practicalities too, I am confident in the education side of it, but it's the money/social aspects that need to be considered more.

DD came down in tears just now. Turns out things haven't been fine with this girl this week after all. More pushing and more threats if she tells the teacher. So she didn't tell of course. I can see why the teacher keeps saying she needs to tell straight away, so they can do something about it, but you can't blame a 7yo for being too scared to do so, can you? :(

Bloody hell. I'd send in the deregistration letter rather than the children tomorrow, in your shoes.

Which bit are you reacting to omm? (Since I've posted a fair bit since your previous reply) DS or DD or both?

(I don't mean that in an aggressive way - TBH I agree with your sentiment even if I can't actually do so tomorrow!)

DD being bullied, and not feeling able to tell the teachers. It doesn't matter that she should tell the teachers - if she feels she can't, and is bottling it up until 7pm, then she's not safe in the playground environment.

And I'm sorry - I shot from the hip a bit there - I didn't mean to put you under pressure!

xx

I know that omm no need to apologise :)

TBH I have posted similar to other MNers in similar situations! It's just not so black and white when it's your own life, is it.

I am absolutely gutted with what she said this evening. She'd told me that the girl had said horrible things again, but nothing else - she burst into tears on the way home from Brownies with DH though (Brownies itself is fine, she loves it and thankfully this girl doesn't go to it).

The ridiculous thing is, with this junior school we were actually a bit apprehensive about sending her (but no other options we could get to) - because of what we had heard about bullying. Most parents seem very happy but I knew a few people whose DCs had been bullied. It seemed to be a case of the 'haves' vs the 'have nots' (this is quite a wealthy area overall) and in those cases the school was apparently useless. But they got a new HT last year and many things seemed to be turning around so we agreed to give it a go (and of course DD wanted to go with all her friends).

It sounds like HE wouldn't be ideal for you, so why not try to change things at school for a while before making any big decisions?

It would be helpful if anyone here who took their DCs out after being unhappy at school could please tell me - what made you finally decide to?

One of my dds sounds very similar to yours, in some of the things you've mentioned, op. Apparently of quite an anxious disposition, enjoyed school in a sense but equally, found it 'too much' (this wasnt vocalised by her but obvious to me) and had many a sleepless night, plus nightmares, sleepwalking and tummy aches.

It's not that she was blatantly unhappy at school - she wasn't but she was stressed and displaying all of the symptoms of it.

Now, home edding, she's 100% happy, 100% restful at night and as time has gone on, is becoming completely anxiety free.

I decided to home ed for a number of reasons and the benefits for my dc have been obvious and undeniable.

My eldest thoroughly enjoys it too and my youngest two, who are currently in school, will be joining us some time before year 5 sat mocks.

Hi fuzzpig, I think I remember you from a thread a few years back that i used to frequently post on (I've name changed a lot since then though)

Anyway I currently Home ed both my DC. Like you I had one DC who was desperately unhappy at school (definitely not school-shaped as omm would say ) and the other not obviously unhappy but who a) would explode with frustration by the end of the day and b) wasn't going anywhere near a school unless his sister was going too.

I'm not going to lie and say it's been easy and some days go a lot better than others (today!) but I'm sure that HE is the right thing for us all at the moment. DD is much happier most of the time. She is still quite damaged from her time in school but slowly healing and the great thing about HE is when she has an off day, we can just down tools and pick up again at a time that suits. DS has had the freedom to investigate subjects in as much depth that suits him, without the restrictions of a curriculum that specifies what a child his age should and shouldn't be learning.

From reading through your posts so far, what I would be tempted to do in your position, is take your DC out of school (if they want to of course) maybe after half-term and do a 'trial-run' of HE for a few months. See how you get on and then say in July review the situation, if its not working start looking for school places to start September. As you say a house move is on the cards, this could be an ideal time as they would need to move school anyway.

Crispy that is what I am hoping to do - keep trying for a while longer. I want them to continue enjoying school and reaping the benefits of it :)

On most days I feel like continuing is the right thing to do, but then days like today make me doubt it. In the past a bad day would just be chalked up to tiredness, being run down, they'd get through it with a restful evening/weekend etc. Now they are becoming more frequent and more intense I am finding it harder to cling to that optimism :(

enjoyed school in a sense but equally, found it 'too much' (this wasnt vocalised by her but obvious to me)

Nodding fervently here! Obviously the bullying issue is being vocalised but before that started the above is an exact description of my DD.

Xpost rigby, thank you (trying to figure out who you could be now :o)

It was an AS support thread on here, but I don't remember the username I had back then. I stopped posting after I got my dx (I went into denial for a while and refused to look at anything AS/autism related) I thought your nn looked familiar then when you mentioned AS, it clicked where I'd seen it before.

Anyway as usual I'm taking the thread off topic- back to discussing HE

Ah I see! I remember the thread :) I have had similar issues struggling to accept my physical illness - was on support threads etc for that but then shied away from it.

Anyway. I'm camping out on the sofa with a DVD tonight as I know my brain will not shut up about all this stuff going on and I need the distraction. I am nervous about tomorrow morning because I have to go to work straight after the school run. I do have time before my bus to pop into the junior school office though - I'll chase up the welfare person who was supposed to phone me, as that will be a good opportunity to take the bullying issue further.

Snap! Also camping out on the sofa tonight, but for me it's because I'm in the middle of redecorating and I haven't been able to access my bedroom for nearly 2 weeks! (was only supposed to be a night or 2)

My DD was also bullied at school and I found dealing with that so time consuming, physically and mentally. Apart from dealing with the fall out once she got home, the endless phone calls and meetings only to find nothing ever got resolve and DD was still unhappy. Constant worrying whether I was doing the right thing, what to do next etc. Then worrying that i was neglecting DS because I was spending so much time on DD. It was relentless and something had to snap, I can see that now. Once they were de-regged it mostly all stopped.

I suppose thinking about it HE suits ME far better than school did too. I think it can actually work out quite well for parents with disabilities as when you have an off day, its ok to leave the DC to their own devices (its amazing to see what they think of all by themselves) or even have a sofa day together watching DVDs (educational of course ) or reading stories. You can make the time up if necessary on the weekend or something- that kind of flexibility just isn't possible with schools.

I'm probably going to get flamed for saying stuff like that, cos HE is meant to be in the best interests of the child not the adult. But IMO it does the child no harm, teaches them independence and empathy and it is in the interest to have a well rested, healthy and sane parent rather than one who is too knackered to function properly because they have carried on and pushe them self to far.

"I'm probably going to get flamed for saying stuff like that, cos HE is meant to be in the best interests of the child not the adult."

I know just what you mean. I tend to keep quiet about those aspects of HE which suit me personally, and not to admit that during dd's few months at school it was a big challenge for me to deliver her to school and fetch her home again at precisely the right time every day. I managed it, but didn't it ever dominate and restrict my life! And I'm not even ill...

It's a strange but very common view that 100% of the reasons why a parent chooses home education should be directly related to her child. Nobody requires that of parents who prefer to send their children to school.

I mean, imagine a parent talking about how well her children like school and how it benefits them, then following up with "...and now they are at school I can return to work doing a job I love, so it suits all of us." Would anyone dream of criticising her for that?

Hmm, very good points there!

As yet DS is still not really awake (he fell asleep before dinner last night which hasn't happened for years, so he must be worn out) and now I'm panicking in case I can't get them there. Will update later. I'm really grateful for the chat and support :)