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Wolf Hall discussion continuation thread

751 replies

AKnickerfulOfMenace · 11/02/2015 13:10

Continuing the thread from Telly Addicts, just in time for episode 4

OP posts:
flippinada · 18/02/2015 22:30

I thought that about the chest thumping, but it is mentioned in the book:

"He puts his hand on the king's chest, slapping it down, like a merchant closing a deal"

BOFster · 18/02/2015 22:31

I enjoyed tonight's episode- it really conveyed the cul-de-sac Cromwell was going down at court. I felt desperately sorry for him, knowing there was no real way for him to stay alive in that atmosphere of circling sharks.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 18/02/2015 22:34

The bit where they thought the king was dead was brilliant. I even felt briefly sorry for bastard King Henry, everybody being more interested in securing their own position in the regency than caring about him.

BOFster · 18/02/2015 22:38

The touch of humour in the way the men admired Jane Seymour's stroke of genius was fun. I do like the way she is portrayed as canny rather than dimly servile.

flippinada · 18/02/2015 22:39

I thought it showed very well his realisation that his position declares entirely on the kings favour and therefore how precarious it is.

I do miss the incidentals that made the book so wonderful - like Maria de Salinas and her accident outside Catherine of Aragon's home/prison and Rafe and his wife but understand why they can't include them. I'm both looking forward to and dreading next week!

CitronVert · 18/02/2015 22:45

I laughed out loud when Henry suggested they dragged up the Harry Percy betrothal again after all the trouble Cromwell went to to shut him up. You could almost hear him thinking 'Bugger..'

marshmallowpies · 18/02/2015 22:58

Loved it when Henry tries to get all chummy with Cromwell to make it up to him after humiliating him - 'let's go and visit the charcoal burners!' You just know these plans for expeditions will never come to anything....just a load of hot air.

FrankelandFilly · 19/02/2015 08:44

I thought it was brilliant Grin It really drove home how precarious everyone's situation was, your life depended on the whim of a very volatile man.

CuttedUpPear · 19/02/2015 09:02

A latecomer to these threads.
I'm now an avid watcher of the series, ever since I remembered, rather late in the day, that I had done a bit of (minor) work on the set last summer.

The series is ace!

magimedi · 19/02/2015 09:20

Tell us more - CuttedUp.

If you haven't read the first thread (in the Telly Addicts section) there is some amazing stuff about the tudors & great links to follow.

Fiderer · 19/02/2015 09:24

I thought it was a great episode. Didn't really have much of a sense of what Henry was like until this one. DL was v good.

Still feel though that I never saw why Henry was so besotted by AB. The series starts with it as an established fact but we never saw them together enough to show any chemistry. He seems to have gone off her even before the second miscarriage, with the public "gelding" outburst but again we see so little of them together it's not easy to understand when and why it soured, esp with her pregnant again.

And why didn't Henry throw jewels and earldoms at TC for saving his life? Because no one liked to mention the king was fallible and daft enough to fall off his horse?

funnyossity · 19/02/2015 09:35

I think Anne had lost the child by the time Henry turned on her.

Who was the man talking on the steps with Cromwell in the aftermath of the King's near death experience, the one who suggested he ally with Carew?

MagratsHair · 19/02/2015 09:42

Could someone please clarify the events of some of last night's episode as I have no knowledge of the Tudors prior to this. (I keep wanting to call Eustache, Moustache as well!)

So Cromwell forced Chapuys into acknowledging Anne at Mass so that the King would then be able to remarry as her position had been confirmed by the Catholics? Then did Chapuys hint to Henry that he could remarry, is that what made him fly into the rage? He accused Cromwell of having him in his pocket, but I didn't see that that was true in the episode.

funnyossity · 19/02/2015 09:48

Anne and Henry were married but Chapuys refuses to acknowledge "the concubine" until forced to by a contrived meeting.

funnyossity · 19/02/2015 09:52

Henry has two continental powers to juggle diplomatically, the French King and the Emperor (Catherine of Aragon's nephew - after her death it is assumed he will be more cooperative) I'm not sure of the particular argument! So I plan to rewatch...

flippinada · 19/02/2015 09:53

The bit about Chapuys being forced to acknowledge Anne definitely happened but I think the rest - Henry arguing with Chapuys and the outburst at Cromwell - are imagined by Hilary Mantel. I may be wrong though.

Quenelle · 19/02/2015 10:18

I think the King's outburst was at Chapuys' suggestion of Elizabeth marrying someone in Europe wasn't it?

There was one bit that made DH go 'Ooooh! A-ha!' but I can't remember what it was now Confused. I should drink less Wine while I'm watching.

Here's a small interview on BBC History Extra with the costume designer Joanna Eatwell. What a fantastic job! I must admit though, despite my initial excitement at Damian Lewis being in it, my focus hasn't been on codpieces so far, there's too much else to follow.

Quenelle · 19/02/2015 10:55

I quite like the bitesize features on the BBC History website.

Here's another article on Cromwell's time in Italy.

funnyossity · 19/02/2015 11:01

I thought Damien Lewis was great last night, becoming more volatile after his accident.

FrankelandFilly · 19/02/2015 12:29

From the Anne Boleyn documentary a few weeks ago they said Henry orchestrated the meeting between Anne and Chapuys so scholars take it as a sign he wasn't looking to get rid of her at that point in time. After all if he wanted shot of her, why bother having her acknowledged?

Anne's second miscarriage happened the day Catherine was buried, probably giving weight (in his mind) to Henry's thought that his marriage was cursed.

FrankelandFilly · 19/02/2015 12:30

On the topic of H8's accident, I thought he was much younger when it happened? Might have imagined it though.

MagratsHair · 19/02/2015 12:36

From the Anne Boleyn documentary a few weeks ago they said Henry orchestrated the meeting between Anne and Chapuys so scholars take it as a sign he wasn't looking to get rid of her at that point in time. After all if he wanted shot of her, why bother having her acknowledged?

Ah I read it a different way, maybe that's where I'm getting confused. I thought that at the Mass he was already detaching from Anne but because he had already locked horns with Rome over his divorce, if he let go of Anne without the Pope formally acknowledging her status he would lose face. So until the Pope (or his minions) recognised her he couldn't let her go as he would consider that as backing down. It was point scoring, essentially.

Then once Rome had acknowledged her statusn, he was free to discard Anne.


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FrankelandFilly · 19/02/2015 12:38

Some googling answered my own question! He did have a jousting accident in 1524 (aged 33) which left him suffering migraines, but the serious one was in 1536 as shown in Wolf Hall.

Good article on the accident here.

Quenelle · 19/02/2015 12:39

I think the King's outburst was at Chapuys' suggestion of Elizabeth marrying someone in Europe wasn't it?

I got this wrong. Chapuys was suggesting marrying Mary off. Henry later said that she wasn't to be married out of the country.

squoosh · 19/02/2015 13:35

Cromwell is reminding me of Edmond Dantès on his quest for revenge.

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