DS struggling at Cambridge

[Naturenurture]

He’s only been there for two weeks but says he wants to leave. He’s a very social, extrovert person and says he feels like no one is on his wavelength. Not terribly sporty but he’s trying to join clubs and societies, and just says he feels like he makes lots of overtures and doesn’t get any response. He’s got a wide social circle at home and says all his friends at other unis seem to be out every night. I don’t know how to help him, he knows he can’t just throw away such an amazing opportunity but he’s just so lonely that it’s heartbreaking. Is this normal, normal for Cambridge, or do you think we have a problem?

I have had both children and other relatives (nephews, nieces, the children of first cousins...) at Oxbridge and still currently do and there has been a sea change in 10 years in terms of dissatisfaction.

@Ceramiq - if that's your perspective, you're of course entitled to it. But for my DS (currently 2nd year at Cambs) and his group of 12 friends, 7 went to Oxford or Cambridge and the rest to other unis.

The Oxbridge lot have all had an 'easier' time of it for some quite understandable reasons - lots of contact time and engaged teaching, small cities that are very geared towards students, great and inexpensive accommodation. In many ways they seem much more 'looked after' than students in big urban cities.

This is obviously just a small group of young people and their experience. But he and his friends seem very satisfied with Oxbridge currently.

"In many ways they seem much more 'looked after' than students in big urban cities."

One person's "looked after" is another person's "suffocating provincial ivory tower."

I’m not sure any students should be feeling “looked after”. They are adults who have left home and are supposed to be learning with a great deal of independence.

Of course they should be looked after. People don't suddenly become fully functioning competent adults as soon as they turn 18 and they often need help to navigate things while they grow and learn. Dropping people who can't swim very well in the deep end tends to have patchy results.

Get him to join the Impronauts, it’s a great social scene and combines town and gown

I’m happy to say the YP I know don’t need handholding to Oxbridge levels

That's very interesting. Which parts specifically of this 'handholding' have they not needed?

Here we go with the anti Oxbridge sentiment again…yawn.

I don’t know why people can’t be able to be honest about their child’s experience . It’s not oxbridge bashing, it’s highlighting issues . Oxbridge is not the panacea . My daughter is in her first term and is doing well but finding it very hard and has peers on suicide watch. So it’s not immune to the usual Uni issues .

DS had an interview at Cambridge but didn't get an offer, but has been to visit friends there. Ended up at another uni on the next 'level' and is taking a difficult degree but is having fun. He has been to visit friends at Oxford and Cambridge and he has noticed that they are finding it pretty tough. It is so competitive these days, and he suggested that they felt under a lot of pressure, which maybe they wouldn't have felt a few years ago. I had a number of school friends who got offers 30 years ago and I am not sure whether they would be getting those offers now.

Dd in exactly the same boat and I’m kind of pleased she didn’t get an offer. Shes thriving where she is. Maybe she would have thrived at Cambridge but she’s had anxiety in the past and puts a lot of pressure on herself. I’d have worried that the pressure at Cambridge could have been too much for her. My nephew is a different personality and for him the pressure has been fine. He’s more laid back while still working hard.

Well, if someone if going to say our intellectual elites who go on to lead our country, industries and civil service etc, need “looking after”, when at other unis students get a flat and a timetable and sort out pretty much everything else themselves, it’s inviting it isn’t it? Perhaps it not so unreasonable though, a lot of Oxbridge students and grads I’ve met aren’t especially streetwise and worldly wise. They’ve spent their youth in their bedrooms studying or excelling at managed fun. The working class students I’ve met at post-92 unis might lack the same academic credentials but they certainly had more nous.

So what exactly is the support you think Oxbridge students need that other students don't need? What is it that the young people you know didn't need that is only available at Oxbridge? In case you weren't aware, pastoral support at all universities is a lot better than it was in even the fairly recent past.

I know quite a few working class students at Oxbridge both now and in the past. Does the nous they have apparently acquired by being working class magically vanish when they get to Oxbridge?

You won't of course have an answer to any of this because you have made it all up. As at any university, at Oxbridge you will find a whole range of students with different backgrounds, life experiences, and levels of streetwiseness. Some of them will need more help than the average person, just as some students at non-Oxbridge universities will need more help than the average person. Some will need less help than the average person, exactly the same as students elsewhere. I'm also not sure why you think deliberately not offering help if required would be a good idea.

I don't know one single Oxbridge student either now amongst my daughter's friends or in the past amongst my own friends who "spent their youth in their bedrooms studying or excelling at managed fun". I'm guessing you don't in fact know any Oxbridge students at all and quite likely no young people of this sort of age.

You sound both chippy and ill-informed.

What kind of handholding do you mean specifically?

Indeed there is a range, but in my experience on average the Oxbridge bods are less streetwise.

Its obvious why, no? The people who go there are far more ‘nerdy’ than average. Lots more affluent privately schooled kids who have grown up in bubbles than average. These kids might be book smart, have grade 8 on bassoon, or be a hockey ace, but they lack street knowledge.

“Back in my day” Oxbridge and unis generally seemed a lot less pressured.

I feel so sorry for young people

Interesting - why do you think that is? Presumably Oxbridge colleges are immune to a large extent from financial pressures, falling student numbers etc so what has changed and why?

I was at Cambridge many moons ago and had a very sticky first term. I remember bonfire night particularly as a low point. I wanted to leave but ironically my grades weren’t very good ( did 4th term exam so had two es offer). For me it was a combination of lack of subject structure and support and a college I didn’t really like. I stuck with it and found my tribe through acting. There is lots going on in terms of activities and societies so I’m sure he’ll get there in the end but it is hard.

I think you'll find most universities provide a level of pastoral support these days. And did back in my day (early 90s ) tbf

This. On many Oxbridge threads, there are always posters who are chomping at the bit to suggest all the students are miserable, not streetwise, all posh and privately educated, and under massive academic pressure. None of these things are true in my experience.

Tell us more of this street knowledge of which you speak. Amongst other things, the charity which I work for works with groups of young people in deprived urban areas. They need huge amounts of support despite (and often because) of their unsheltered upbringing.

It's not at all obvious. People are individuals. There isn't a slider with nerdy at one end and streetwise at the other. People can be both, or neither.

What you've posted is just a bunch of lazy thinking based on outdated stereotypes which strongly suggests that you have no experience of any of the things you have mentioned.

I can only speak for myself but no, I would not be getting an offer now (graduated from Cambridge in 1996). I was a bright girl but I would fail the "genuine passion for subject" test right out of the gate. My subject was just my favourite A-level and my degree was a means to an end. I was definitely not spending my weekends and evenings doing extra reading, watching history documentaries (think the history channel had been invented by then- can't quite remember) or doing other "super curriculars."

It is observable that Cambridge (cant comment on Oxford ) has evolved its admissions policies considerably over the intervening period to prioritise academic passion and "demonstrably above A* academics" over everything else. You can argue that should always have been the case - they are an elite Uni not a sports club/ theatre school - but I do think these changes have had the impact of raising the general academic anxiety in the undergrad population while diminishing the richness of the extra curricular experience. The real academic super weapons that may have been anxious about not getting a triple starred first were soothed by comparison with us mere mortals fighting for our 2:1 lives (getting a 2:2 was actually considered fine, and even a 3rd if accompanied by a blue/ footlights lead) whereas we thought "man I hope you achieve your dream to be a Cambridge don because you'll never survive in the wild", and everyone was happy. Dons basically ignored undergrads. There was zero pastoral care or ensuites, but honestly I think the average Cambridge undergrad was happier then. We also used to be allowed to have absolutely massive parties in college (either in the houses or in college itself) which I gather aren't allowed now, so I can see that that would impact the social side, and then there's SM which allows them to directly compare their experience to their mates at other Unis. Even in the 90's the social side definitely had a different rhythm to it than other Unis - was weekend focused because everyone stayed at weekends, with no big mid week party nights (unless you count Cindy's) and it was more focused around "make your own fun", but there was a lot of rope there, whereas now I feel there isnt as much as well as fewer people inclined to use it.

Sounds like my experience. Bright but not obsessed with my subject. Worked hard enough to get a 2:1 but had plenty of time for extra curriculars which in fact set me on my career path. Had no interest in trying g for a first and felt sorry for people who did as they had no life. Went to a lot of events in other colleges - bops - do they not happen now?