To ask about Law at the university of York

[Fatsnowflake]

DD got 7 9s and 3 8s at GCSE and got an Oxford offer for Law. She was predicted 4 A. She's won loads of national essay competitions and has generally built her identity around being a high flyer. Come results day - two As and two Bs and Oxford have rejected her. She's set to go to the University of York as her insurance choice but she's feeling really down about everything and is pessimistic about her future. In History she is two marks off the A and in Politics she's just one mark off an A so waiting for a review of marking but not expecting anything to change.

Please tell me positives about York. I'm stressing and so is she. She's feeling like her future is gone. I'm so upset for her. She's honestly such a clever and articulate young woman. She's saying her A Levels aren't good enough for Vac schemes and training contracts and she's not at all excited for uni.

I was a high flyer at school. I applied to Oxford and York (among others) for my subject. This is years ago now of course. I had my interview at York first, before Oxford. I fell in love with the department. The people were so great. I remember being blown away by the labs and the research they were doing on things I'd never even heard of. The atmosphere was just fantastic. They also offered industrial scholarships which people could apply for if they firmed York.

A month later I went for my Oxford interview. I already knew I wanted to go to York. I hated everything about Oxford (this is not to do Oxford down because I know it's great for some people) - I hated the formal dining halls; I didn't like the tutors in the three colleges I was interviewed at; I didn't like their questioning style (too long to explain here but obviously I just wasn't suited to the type of teaching they do there); the other students who were applying to the same course at the same college were so "posh" and just a world away from me. Basically it was just completely the wrong place for me. The result of it was that I didn't get an offer (I suspect my lack of enthusiasm came over and also I got into a right argument with a tutor in the interview and I think they knew they wouldn't enjoy teaching me!).
I was put under so much pressure to reapply the following year, especially by the school, or apply to Cambridge.

I didn't change my mind though. I got top A-level grades and I went to York and got the industrial scholarship I wanted and because I was at the very top of the year group I got all kinds of opportunities handed to me on a plate.
I had a brilliant time. I am also musical and I had fantastic experiences as part of the university orchestra and other groups in the music department.

A long story... but this feels like a disaster for you and your daughter now, but it really isn't. York is a great university. There are lots of opportunities and what's important is building up a CV including experience to make her stand out. Many firms now recruit blind so Oxford won't make the difference it would have done 30 years ago.
You need to stop crying and start talking positively to her. It is a big disappointment but life is about making the best out of unfortunate situations - and that business with the German A-level was really unfortunate and I'm sorry for her for that.

@bodododo Lawyers from Oxford tend not to compete so much for regional law jobs. They are much more focused on London in general. Law is quite different to many other careers in terms of standard and very high salaries. Industrial placements don’t come into it. It’s totally down to dc to do relevant things. But nearly everyone will be doing the same! For lawyers, the Oxford style of teaching is first class. My DD did formal dinners when training to be a barrister. You cannot just run away and say it’s not for you. It might have to be.
York teaches law in a different way but doesn’t use LNAT so it’s not premier league but that doesn’t mean dc cannot succeed in their chosen career but making career decisions early in y2 is vital for vac schemes and building a relevant cv.

She should be at a premier League uni really. She got 30 LNAT. I want her to do a gap year. She doesn't want that.

@Moreholidaysthanjudithchalmers you or anyone else will only know of their university once they get to the final stages. Have to get through the psychometric tests first and some firms even do video interviews with a robot before they get called for the assessment centres or vac scheme

No we don’t recruit blind, I see everything.

I’m not disagreeing it’s an ultra competitive market but this dd has successfully beat 800 in a competitive essay competition, got through Oxford interview to receive an offer, strong LNAT and secured a paid work experience pre yr1. She’s clearly very capable and has something about her that makes her stand out. Her grades while not stellar don’t knock her out of the game.

Fingers crossed for review but if not I’m sure she’ll thrive at York.

She hasn't got the grades for a "premier league" uni though has she, so she will have to go somewhere else and make the best of it.
If the grades go up in the remark she might still get into Oxford but if they don't, would taking a gap year and applying to another uni which you think is good enough for her really help? Because she still won't have the grades they are looking for, even though she has a great result in the LNAT

The teaching at Oxford for lawyers can be as first class as it likes. OP's daughter unfortunately hasn't got the grades she needed so she'll have to make the best of somewhere else.
OP asked for people's experiences of York so I shared mine.
She seems to think York isn't good enough for her daughter. But unless those grades go up in the remark she's not going to be getting into one of the universities she wants her to go to. So that means making the best of it somewhere else.

1 mark off A star in history and 2 marks off A in politics I’d not get hopes up but there’s a reasonable chance one or both may go up. My dd had a review in history as 1 mark off and got the A star, they found 3 marks I recall (didn’t need it for uni offer fortunately)
Please do update Op.

@bodododo I was responding to why you didn’t like Oxford. I think for law, it wasn’t a valid argument. York for law, doesn’t ask for LNAT and is not top tier so studying something else years ago is a bit wide of the mark as is dislike of toffs at Oxford etc. My DD also had a place at Oxford and was in the same position as the DD here and I’m more aware than most of the crushing disappointment felt and I don’t need reminding of the OP’s predicament. I have also said that my DD is now a barrister and that you certainly can succeed without an Oxbridge education. You don’t lose intelligence and other useful skills by being elsewhere. All lawyers need to plan their careers and be organised as it simply cannot be last minute or deadlines have passed you by. This can make it very different from other careers and it’s all down to your drive and determination.

Just be aware that if she does a gap year and reapplies, she will have to redo LNAT. They don’t let you carry the score to the next admissions cycle. So even if her grades go up, Oxford still says no, it may still be worth taking York if she doesn’t want to redo LNAT.

I am really worried about money too. York is so much more expensive than Oxford would have been.

@Fatsnowflake Nearly everywhere is more expensive than subsidised Oxford colleges! You will just have to put up with that. No doubt her other three choices would have been too. She will just have to accept cheaper Halls and be savvy when she’s not in halls. You are not treated differently to anyone else but I’d keep these worries quiet. No disappointed dc wants this lumped on top too. Has she got a job this summer? Make sure she does in future!

Yes York is very expensive. Has she been allocated halls? My DD’s friend got a clearing spot at York and only halls option £10,000 a year. You can’t insist you are allocated the cheaper options especially as an insurance or clearing student. Yr 2 rent £200 a week in a private house.

She's got the most expensive halls.

Is there any scope for moving if some drop out but appreciate that’s not easy from a making friends or logistics of moving stuff point of view. My DD’s friend’s parents sucked it up. She secured her yr2 house Autumn term yr1 as accommodation is in demand so that deposit was another expense.

I don't think so. It's going to be hard but I'll try and make it work.

I think for her self esteem she needs to move forward. I don't think she worked as hard for A Levels as she did for GCSE as she was socialising more. But that's natural. I just hope Law isn't an unrealistic career path now.

I don’t think it’s realistic to expect her to move forward until review of marking done.
Break it down into steps.
Let’s see what review is.
Focus on having a great work experience week. Has she prepped, got questions to ask.
After that if it’s no to Oxford frank conversation about if she really wants York
or gap year and apply for uni for 27.
Then if latter conversation about LNAT.

@Fatsnowflake So can she get any temp work at any stage? Next summer is the best bet now I guess.

@Fatsnowflake A lot of us are saying it’s not but I’m unclear why you keep saying her career is compromised. She’s 3 years to get through the degree and then she’s obviously got to plan her cv too. She needs to grasp opportunities. B

The other LNAT unis are not cheap either. Did she take 4 A levels? Why? Having days that, DD did too and paid the price. However bright dc who are switched on don’t suddenly become useless just because they are not at Oxford.What she needs to do is choose an area of law where competition is less fierce and see how she can get a great cv. I understand the negativity but you will have to get over it.

Maybe. I'm not sure Oxford will take her even if the politics goes up to an A because her offer was for Law with German and she missed the A in German. I just had a chat with them. They don't tend to switch students to a different course - it depends on their quotas etc

Yes I will get over it. I'll be ok and she will do brilliantly. She may find it easier to get a first at York too. I think it's that she was so close and it was her dream.
I'm kicking myself for the four A levels - it was clearly a mistake. Her school didn't offer German but she really wanted to do it and so she did it privately as an extra.

What happened with your DD @MeetMeOnTheCorner

She did the 4th as school didn’t offer German. So her school/college required her to do 3 A levels and she did German out of school as an extra (there’s no state school or college offering German A level anywhere near us inc grammar so I do understand)
Her grades are good. There’s no reason why she can’t go on and thrive.
Having a language A level particularly if she follows up with a semester or year abroad is another way to stand out.

I'm absolutely kicking myself now as I've found a sixth form that gets good results that did offer German A level.