To ask about Law at the university of York

[Fatsnowflake]

DD got 7 9s and 3 8s at GCSE and got an Oxford offer for Law. She was predicted 4 A. She's won loads of national essay competitions and has generally built her identity around being a high flyer. Come results day - two As and two Bs and Oxford have rejected her. She's set to go to the University of York as her insurance choice but she's feeling really down about everything and is pessimistic about her future. In History she is two marks off the A and in Politics she's just one mark off an A so waiting for a review of marking but not expecting anything to change.

Please tell me positives about York. I'm stressing and so is she. She's feeling like her future is gone. I'm so upset for her. She's honestly such a clever and articulate young woman. She's saying her A Levels aren't good enough for Vac schemes and training contracts and she's not at all excited for uni.

hopefully the remarks will put her grade up and Oxford will accept her. If they don’t a she just needs to get on with it. The first year degree marks will matter more than AL when it come to applying for internships etc.

@Fatsnowflake Don’t be ridiculous! Of course being a barrister is not out! The majority are not Oxbridge!

She might need to be savvy about area of law but nothing is off limits. I too thought this by the way but it’s total rubbish! Yes a career in law takes organisation and pragmatism but York is decent enough. She needs to do everything in her power to be a great candidate for law work but students get guidance on this. It’s about more than degree and uni too. Personality, comfudence, getting on with people, being an interesting well educated person , speaking ability, constructing an argument etc are all things to work on and try hard for vac schemes and mini pupilages if she changes her mind. It’s all still available.

I’ve had some involvement in law firm vac scheme applications too. The firms take a wider range of unis than you’d think and York is hardly trailing at the bottom of the league tables. My advice to your DD is to make sure she gets good grades on her modules even in the first year as the firms do look at that (or at least ours does).

I'm heavily involved with trainee recruitment and supervision at a City firm. I can't speak for the Clifford Chances of the world but certainly at mid-size firms like ours she would in no way be disqualified from a training contract.

She has a week's paid work experience at a law firm next week.

Thank you @HewasH2O
the first choice uni is full for this year apparently. They’re not keen on a gap year but let’s see how they feel after the remarks come back. We will try and visit York next week. I guess it’s just so odd to get one’s head around life going in a completely unexpected direction plus dealing with the disappointment at the same time.
@Fatsnowflake I also feel awfully sad for them but trying to stay supportive of course. My sympathies.

@Fatsnowflake That’s a great start. DD did 2 weeks at a local solicitors in their family law dept and then decided to be a family law barrister. She found the solicitors miserable!

Dds best friend is doing law at York, just about to start his second year.
He's doing ok.

My son did maths at the University of York, it's a good, well respected Russell group university in the top 20 and he was very happy there. As was I...I totally fell in love with the city!

This is massively outing. I’d suggest asking for this post to be removed.

Thank you - I have done. I didn't realise her name was still up there!

Thank you for responses. It's been a bloody horrid week.

I think she would quite like Clifford chance but hopefully it's not ruled out.

“I think she would quite like Clifford chance but hopefully it's not ruled out.”

@Fatsnowflake - just to flag that there are dozens of very serious law firms - large, medium and small - where your DD could have a hugely fulfilling career; including many where she might be able to use her German (particularly if she goes into disputes). She should ensure she casts her net wide whether she’s applying as an Oxford or a York graduate!

I went to York on business recently on my own. I did two nights in the central city right next to some student accommodation, and got to explore on foot alone during the day. It was absolutely divine. I saw lots of student groups walking around, the city vibe was amazing and I dreamt I was two decades younger and studying there. It was so cool and so beautiful. I was trying to remember why I didn’t choose York all those years ago because it felt really special. I also lived in Oxford for two years when young (not as a student) and it was nothing amazing. Plus I got mugged on day one.

I think what might make it extra hard for DD is that I went to Oxford 28 years ago. I think it was both our dream.

Hmm. Oxford IS amazing! Doesn’t suit everyone but as a city it’s hard to beat. However most students enjoy going where they end up. It’s not going to stop her having a career.

Law is also odd in that it’s regional. Many northern educated law grads like to stay in the north unless they are from the south. This is why Durham and Bristol are big hitters in London law but Manchester is a big hitter in Manchester but less so in London. Manchester students like Manchester. If dc are from London they are more aware of the benefits of London and want the money! So where grads end up can depend on uni and very much where you see yourself living. Plus where your mates are going.

@Fatsnowflake - I hope your DD enjoys the work experience.

The alternative if she is focussed on the likes of Clifford Chance and magic circle and international commercial law, is a degree apprenticeship. Most of them offer it now (Clifford Chance doesn’t though, not sure why as it is now an anomaly). The details are on Legal Cheek, easily accessible. My DC3 and a lot of her grammar school friends have this as an alternative to Oxbridge seeing that it has become such a lottery anyway for some. By that I mean some of the truly stellar kids did not get in, whereas others did and there were some surprises in the last few years.
One of my DD’s friends in the year above - who is truly stellar - was rejected from Oxford but secured several top law firm apprenticeship offers instead. Most are in London though, some may offer in regional cities initially, one would have to investigate.
It is a back up if she starts at York, but does not like it - she could consider it, if she is that way inclined. They still do a law degree one day a week, 4 days at work. The headache to find a training contract later is largely removed by following this path and obviously they are earning 30k plus from the get go. As it is becoming more popular, I suspect they have a nice peer group at the uni they study at 1 day a week too now.

@Fatsnowflakeand what do you do now? And @Moreholidaysthanjudithchalmersnot sure how recent your information is but as it’s notoriously hard to get a training contract, I wonder how many DC “choose” to go somewhere. Although I guess you would only apply to certain places only if you want to go there

My DD interviewed at Oxford but didn’t get a place, and at the time was devastated. She took an unconditional offer from York. She has loved the place (uni dept, uni and city) she’s gone on to do her Masters there and is now one year away from completing her funded PHD in the same department. Despite a round of redundancies last year which were unsettling, she’s managed to retain the same supervisor throughout this time who has been nothing but supportive (pretty demanding too in fairness) and who has really given her so much opportunity to develop in her chosen area.

DD lived in halls and then the city until last year, and is now a 20 minute train journey from dept in a slightly cheaper area to live, York is a hugely expensive place to be in terms of rental properties.

She absolutely loves the city, as do we (we are not that far away). It’s frustrating in summer as it’s absolutely heaving with tourists because it’s so lovely, and she avoids it then, but otherwise it feels safe and far less overwhelming than big cities.

I am concerned about the cost of her going there too.

I am a teacher.

I would love her to go for an apprenticeship but she doesn't want to.

Re the cost, halls were average cost and when she was sharing a student house (which was a ten minute walk from campus) with 3 others, totally reasonable. It’s just been since she’s been doing her PHD and renting in a more ‘normal’ sense of the word that it’s become more cost effective to rent a little further away.

I am an ex york student, not law. I adored the university and my time there. Can't speak to law but the university is wonderful. It sounds like your daughter will be very focused on studies but there are wonderful and very safe nights out. There are loads of vibrant societies (dramasoc, pantsoc, happily and CMS were my ones). I am still very, very close friends with loads of people from my year. It's a fabulous and challenging but safe space to spread wings.

Mine didn’t want to go for apprenticeship either originally, but she is doing her second set of proper work experience as we speak with hands on legal work which she is really enjoying. She now wants to explore the possibility.
Over a year ago she didn’t want to apply to Oxford as it’s too competitive, now she wants to give it a shot but she knows it’s a lottery. I think our job is just to reassure them and explain lots of different options. You really need a solid backup to Oxbridge that you are happy with. For us apprenticeship in London is very easy due to easy commute from home initially so I am pleased DD is looking into it. The alternative is a gap year at a foreign uni, we are lucky there and have close friends and family abroad.