To ask about Law at the university of York

[Fatsnowflake]

DD got 7 9s and 3 8s at GCSE and got an Oxford offer for Law. She was predicted 4 A. She's won loads of national essay competitions and has generally built her identity around being a high flyer. Come results day - two As and two Bs and Oxford have rejected her. She's set to go to the University of York as her insurance choice but she's feeling really down about everything and is pessimistic about her future. In History she is two marks off the A and in Politics she's just one mark off an A so waiting for a review of marking but not expecting anything to change.

Please tell me positives about York. I'm stressing and so is she. She's feeling like her future is gone. I'm so upset for her. She's honestly such a clever and articulate young woman. She's saying her A Levels aren't good enough for Vac schemes and training contracts and she's not at all excited for uni.

@Araminta1004 There are law apprenticeships wuth the major firms but they are a tiny minority when compared with the standard route. No idea why people are focussing on CC but apprenticeships are more like hens teeth than training contracts! Plus there’s quite a lot of evidence building that they are being used for DEI purposes to diversify the workforce. Not sure if there’s hard evidence of this, but MN has discussed it before. I’d not put all my eggs in this basket.

There is always parental help required for degrees @Fatsnowflake and York isn’t that bad!

Yes maybe I just let her lead on this and I had always planned to support her through uni of course. I think I'm just panicking a bit.

If the legal cheek numbers are correct for apprenticeships, they are incredibly low! Even magic circle below 10 recruits. Legal cheek have an insight day in November.

OK @MeetMeOnTheCorner - but we know several people from DD’s grammar school and some private schools in London like City of London who have made the apprenticeships in the last 3 years across all sorts of firms, so query how DEI it really is (if you include Asian whizz kid from grammar or City of London in that, then arguably but they aren’t DEI as far as I am concerned). It is an increasing trend, further encouraged by Government. They want the kids who want to in work and paying tax. We know it is competitive but it suits high octane DC who are ambitious and efficient etc who don’t need further growing up and extra time and all sorts. So it is a good option for some.
For DD2 it is a good second option. I will be happy with Bristol or Durham or Warwick uni for her too. No harm in keeping options open. She is super fast and can submit an application quickly. She also has lots of extracurriculars, work experience and scores 100% typically on verbal reasoning tests, but is not your typical detailed orientated highly academic PhD type child like DD1.

Have you put in both the History and Politics papers for a review? Both were pretty close! Obviously don’t get her hopes up but I would have thought that there is at least a reasonable chance that one of the grades will go up? I am crossing my fingers for her! 🤞

We are in a similar situation. My DS also missed his firm offer by one grade (not Oxford though) - he needed A star A A and got A A A. Missed an A star in History (OCR) by a few marks and we are also having a review. In funny limbo where trying to get head around going to his insurance place and get excited but knowing the door is still open to the firm Uni if his grade goes up. Hoping we know one way or another asap as the uncertainty is not helpful.

Let is know what happens with the review.

Yes waiting for one politics paper to come back and the history

It really is so ridiculous that she got rejected because of 1 mark. Because with an A in Politics they would have taken her I reckon. 3 x A is their standard offer I thought. Personally I would be very hopeful.

I’m a solicitor that recruits graduates (and has an undergraduate law student dc) so very up to date.
York is still a competitive university. My comment set sights accordingly was acknowledging that yes it will be more difficult for her if she’s aiming for magic circle from York v Oxford but it’s not ruled out.

We have one paper to come back and one mark to find. But her offer was Law with German and she missed the German grade. But if politics goes up by one mark she's met the standard Law offer so they may take her.

She is aiming for Magic Circle

A solicitor apprenticeship is harder to secure than an Oxbridge law place. There’s so few.
There’s also the issue that they tend to be in lower paid areas of law (my colleagues dd is doing criminal - she had an amazing cv to secure it in her gap year)
Some city firms offer a tiny number but often go to candidates meeting a diversity criteria.

DH used to work at York Uni and my work has collaborations with groups there. It's a fab university and the city is beautiful and historic.

I feel your pain with the History A level though, DD1 also missed an A star by 2 marks. She spoke to her History teacher and he said that she would be unlikely to get upgraded because for the essay subjects they kind of say 'well, yes you might get an extra couple of marks on that essay but it's within the same band so they won't put it up even though overall those increased marks might help you move up a grade'. His advice was 'save your money for Fresher's week'.

Can’t see anyone has shared this but her grades aren’t precluding her for applying.
https://www.chambersstudent.co.uk/law-firms/getting-a-training-contract/application-and-selection-criteria
She’ll need to be on it in terms of applying for yr 1 insights and then yr2 vacation schemes but she sounds like a very strong candidate with things like winning the essay competition and obviously interviews well getting an Oxford offer. They look at yr1 grades at uni.
Good luck to her.
Do update how she gets in with review of marking.

Thank you. This is all really reassuring.

@MoreholidaysthanjudithchalmersHuge numbers are strong candidates. The second column gives the frightening number of applicants! Most dc learn fairly quickly that they look stellar and then so do many others. However absolutely apply for everything and most will be selecting university blind.

It was always going to be competitive and this might be a humbling experience.

Rejection is often redirection
However, she is disappointed and her feelings are valid

Oh absolutely. I am completely gutted for her but trying not to show it.

I think it's fine to show that you are disappointed for her. You can't fix it and you're more likely to be able to see it will work out well either way but that doesn't mean you can't share what you're actually feeling.
"I'm so gutted you haven't got the results you really wanted and worked so hard for " wouldn't be a bad thing for her to hear.

She knows that. But privately I've been crying which she can't see. I've been stoic for her as much as I can.

It’s also worth remembering that aspirations at 18 may be vastly different to those at 21/22. What she feels her path of choice is now may change significantly. I know so few young people that finish university with the same aims as when they started. Even DD, who is still broadly in the same field that she has wanted to be in from around 16, is no where near researching the area she initially intended/wanted for her PHD but very much in the place she wants to be now that her practical experience has developed.

And there’s also very many young people that settle very quickly into their insurance choice and I hope, if this happens in this case, your daughter does too.

Good luck to her. What she feels is her identity now may well be broadened by this experience.

I’m now a little out of touch, but I suggest that what is important is what involvement she has with law apart from studying it. Paralegal work, voluntary work and internships, which don’t have to be in Big Circle forms, are ways of showing enthusiasm for and knowledge of her chosen profession.

Also don’t fixate on London or large city chambers, or even just English ones.

She's got a week's paid work experience at a leading international commercial Law firm next week. Not Silver Circle but just below.

@needastrongone To be blunt here: HE threads are full of people doing doctorates. In real life they don’t. If an 18 year old wants law, virtually no one needs or does a doctorate. In earnings terms it’s irrelevant. She needs to start building her cv. She’s made a start and that’s good. There’s loads more she could do and getting people skills is also very useful. My dd volunteered for the National Trust and gave talks on a special subject at the property. She organised a student ball (shortlisted for student event of the year), she chaired a society etc etc. Students who get out there and network can start to build the foundations for a career and my dd didn’t even study law so no mooting competitions for her. A determined person cannot afford to waver in their pursuit of a law career so I’d always advocate getting stuck in and not swerve off course because others won’t. Just look at the application numbers!

Great she’s got paid work experience before even starting undergraduate. Thats a real achievement.