DD decided against applying for Oxbridge

[SinuousTendrils]

My DD has finally decided not to apply for Oxbridge. Of course i realise she had a slim chance of getting in but I'd really hoped she'd throw her hat in the ring. With the current graduate jobs market as it is, I thought she might be in with a chance of a golden ticket if she got in.
Is it really that dire out there? Would a talented high achiever really struggle to find a career after uni? I've been advising her to consider her STEM subjects rather than literature, which i think she'd enjoy more...thinking at Oxbridge humanities degrees still have currency...it's so hard, isn't it?!

Not sure why you've misinterpreted my post as being anti Oxbridge btw, but it really is not the be all and end all and that is factually correct. Having a degree from there on its own does not automatically set you up for life.

As I stated it can be a door opener but that's about it. Nowhere have I said Oxbridge graduates have no other skills.

Having said that, I used to run grad schemes in the city for a big 4 consultancy. The Oxbridge grads were mostly bright, but also did seem to need more help with the soft skills component i.e how to interact with clients without seeming arrogant. Just my lived experience of years of dealing with grads.

To the OP, I would also echo what others have said in that when we were hiring we looked for work experience over a top tier university. The two are not mutually exclusive but I think you need to focus on her being well rounded in addition to a degree (sounds like your daughter is very bright and will succeed wherever she goes tbh!).

I know someone who went to Oxford and dropped out in their first year because the pressure was too much. Baring in mind this was someone at the top of their class at a well known private school. It’s easy when you’re a big fish in a little pond but Oxbridge is full of big fish!

I scraped a 2:2 at Oxbridge. Went to do another degree to help me career-wise at a lower ranking university and got a first. With a 2:2 I couldn’t get on any grad schemes because they are all uni-blind and need a 2:1. I’m pretty sure if I’d gone to a different uni I’d have got a better degree class and didn’t find the environment suited me very well. I think I was used to being very good at school without much effort and found it difficult putting in effort and still doing badly.

I declined to join the Oxbridge programme despite being one of the highest achievers because I'm a working class Welsh woman and that's not my world, nor did I want to make it my world. I've never regretted it for a moment.

If you have the social capital to make Oxbridge work for you then it can be a great networking opportunity but if you're a run of the mill intelligent poor person then it's just a chance to work harder than your peers who've had a leg up every step of the way since the day they were born and then still not be rewarded for your graft at the end. Better off going to a Russell Group university that specialises in her subject or has strong international links, or links with industry.

Scottish 4-year courses are good for keeping options open and finding your passion as you go.

“Good at school without much effort” oh yeah I know this one. I never learned how to study because I have a good memory and just remembered everything my teachers said. Because school primarily tests the ability to remember things, I always did well, and I got a bit of a shock at uni when I was suddenly expected to study independently and extrapolate information instead of just regurgitating knowledge. I struggled through uni but it wasn’t until I did my professional exams (actuary) that I actually figured out how to study properly.

If she isn't interested in STEM subjects then it's pointless doing them for job opportunities. University isn't just about job opportunities. I have seen young people persuaded to study subjects of no interest because it led to a good job. It rarely ended happily.
She will thrive at any good university.

A gap year with some travelling /voluntary work or paid work would be great for her but she can still have a uni place lined up for after as that will be easier than finding a place whilst abroad. If she changes her mind on course then she can reapply.

All the universities you have listed are great universities so don’t worry about that and she should find a course that she is interested in.

To make her more employable after she can focus on things to build up confidence and range of skills (teamwork, resilience, adaptability, public speaking etc). She can do this through joining a sports team or other society, paid or voluntary work, summer internships, other skills certifications offered by the university etc, travelling etc.

Have her consider careers that might be of interest and see if there are early ways in - for example accountancy offers things like taster sessions, summer internships etc.

Not Oxbridge but my Dad was disappointed when I declined my offer to St Andrews. I just knew from visiting it wasn't the place for me.

Going to uni is about more then the prestige of a place and a lot of graduate schemes are now university blind to avoid the exact bias you mean by the golden ticket (which there isn't one).
If she hates a place then she will struggle if she enjoys a location and uni she will thrive.
Oxbridge set up also leaves little time for other aspects and I would say with 2 degrees in a Stem subject it's more about experience not just the degree paper.

Whatever she decides to study she also needs to supplement with work aspects be it unpaid work, internships or volunteering and you have to be persistent and savey to get those too.

The degree wouldn’t matter. The choice would be based on how they were as a person/ how they answered questions.
Can they give good examples, can they engage well in a conversation, do they seem like someone who will get on well with people, do they have an awareness of the world around them, are they likely to be proactive, do they seem to be intelligent and also have emotional intelligence, are they interested in learning new things, are they interested in the role/business.

I also work in finance and regularly hire graduates.

Honestly makes no difference, it’s all about scores at the assessment centre. You could argue someone with a more applied maths subject would have better examples to give in the assessment centre but I don’t think makes much difference tbh. 90% of my colleagues did maths or economics of some form. As long as it’s a numerate degree then you’ve got just as good a chance as any.

Leave it up to her. By the time she has finished education everything will be different.

Research, research, research...

Because her deciding NOT to go to Oxbridge doesn't mean 'oh, so it will be anywhere else then'. Just as doing a Gap year is all very well - but what sort of gap year? Otherwise she can just do a year in an office job getting a bit of cash which is what the average Joe might do and nothing wrong with it but not necessarily character building.

She could have a gander at the other unis she had in mind, which city would she like to be at three years, is the course involving and interesting and yes is there a job at the end of it?

I got turned down from Oxford twice so that was okay, I got my grades and got an unconditional offer from Bristol, one of the top 5. Hated it, just should have researched it more.

That all said, it's hard to nip up to these places because in term time it tempts fate and you may not have the money or time, and now in the holidays the students aren't there so you won't get the vibe.

My DD had three A stars in hand and a 50/50 EPQ (not that Oxbridge cares about that) and didn’t get an offer. Frankly the vast majority of applicants will have three or four A star predicted but still chances are slim, and it is a very different kind of teaching style. My DD is at Durham and has done loads of outside her course activities that I don’t think she’d have time for (she takes a lot of time to write essays) at Oxbridge. She is currently doing a paid internship at Durham and is off to Columbia in a couple weeks on another internship (she’s a Laidlaw Scholar). She’d have gone if she’d got an offer, but I’m not sad she didn’t. She’s done so much that any extra prestige it would have given her she’s more than made up for.
It takes a lot of preparation to apply and exams/submissions and frankly it’s a lot on top of studying for A levels.

I wouldn't be applying to Uni unless she has a general idea of what she wants to do. Maybe some career coaching can help her decide the general direction. That way, while at Uni she can get internships, work experience etc in the area she wants to go into.

Some employers block which university their applicants apply from in an attempt to avoid pre conceived bias towards some institutions.

A degree is not a guarantee of employment, but it should open some opportunities.

Work experince
Soft skills
Volunteering
Good communication
Willing to learn new skills
These are valued too

As someone who was made redundant recently yes the job market is dire but it's dire for everyone at every level which will include Oxford Graduates. That said it may change again by the time she leaves uni.

Leaving aside Oxbridge I do think there are opportunities out there that can help support them in their future careers but I would agree with the poster who says they need to think through there gap years and what they really want to work through it all.

My daughter I would say has had a very successful gap year before she heads to Durham to do Business & Management. After a few false starts she opened up her own equine groom business, she has completed lots of successful networking in local competition yards, built a client base as well as her own invoicing and has a business finances. She's currently in the states as equestrian camp counsellor but will return to run her business with lots of offers of work when she returns.

Is she currently working, volunteering, involved in a hobby, side hustling? I know it’s hard to get that experience but it can give an edge in the jobs market. Mainly it gives YP a level of confidence and an insight into working.

I hated my time there and left, a long time ago now.

It makes no difference what university she chooses. On job application forms it only asked for qualification not where you got it. I couldn't tell you where my works mates got their qualifications from.

It makes no difference what university she chooses. On job application forms it only asked for qualification not where you got it. I couldn't tell you where my works mates got their qualifications from.

This. We can guide them but at the end of the day she should be choosing what she wants to study and where.

As a very poor, immigrant, working class girl, going to Oxford was my golden ticket. I studied law (jurisprudence) and it opened doors that would have never otherwise opened for me.

I'm 37 and telling people I went to Oxford still opens conversations and doors for me. I recently changed jobs and (i) the Oxford degree and (ii) fabulous graduate job it got me, look very good on my CV.

So yes, I would be very disappointed if I had a high achieving child who won't even try.

That was me (without sounding too much of an idiot), but it made it really hard. I didn't have 'my' thing, 'my' subject. Later in life I've found that being an all rounder is the golden ticket in itself. I found my thing in my 30's and the combination has been very successful: happy, motivated, fulfilled, high earning, I do feel I have it all. If she has anything she enjoys, see what professional links that might suggest and go from there. Life isn't just one opportunity.

Maybe some civil service jobs do this, but vast majority of employers absolutely do see where you graduated. And LOTS of employers go to Oxford career fairs and recruit students from there directly. In my second year, I had a dinner with a different law firm almost every week. Not just with HR, but partners and mid senior associates who made the time to come down to Oxford and take students out for dinner. Even if you didn't apply for those particular law firms, the conversations and insights were invaluable.

As a £60k investment I would really advise getting your daughter to spend the time to think about what her future looks like and what's she needs to do to get there.

She may not know at this point which is absolutely fine, that's what gap years are for. Work, travel, study (there are lots of free courses online in such a wide and varied range of subjects).

Many go to university because it is the 'done thing' just like I did. A decision I regret and something I wish I had realised wasn't my only option.

Don't spend/let her get into debt to the tune of £60k if there is no burning passion/need to go.