DD decided against applying for Oxbridge

[SinuousTendrils]

My DD has finally decided not to apply for Oxbridge. Of course i realise she had a slim chance of getting in but I'd really hoped she'd throw her hat in the ring. With the current graduate jobs market as it is, I thought she might be in with a chance of a golden ticket if she got in.
Is it really that dire out there? Would a talented high achiever really struggle to find a career after uni? I've been advising her to consider her STEM subjects rather than literature, which i think she'd enjoy more...thinking at Oxbridge humanities degrees still have currency...it's so hard, isn't it?!

There are two people in my life who have done exceptionally well for themselves. One has a degree from Wolverhampton and the other has no degree at all.

Honestly, I hate to break it to you but degrees are not worth as much anymore in general. Oxbridge does open more doors but it is my no means the be all and end all. Other life skills are far more important these days.

Let her decide, she may make a huge mistake but it's her life. She could also flourish in another university, there are plenty of good ones.

As for the course, in one way you're right, humanities degrees are a waste of time if you're expecting to make money out of them at the end (I have a languages degree so believe me I know), but it will be hard for your DC to thrive at a subject she doesn't like. So again, let her choose what she's interested in.

Of course your job is to guide her and give her the best information available, but ultimately it's is her choice.

I don't think Oxbridge is a golden ticket but for certain careers it does help. Does she have any long term career aspirations? She could think about working back from those - what would give her the best chances? I desperately wanted to be human rights barrister so choose Oxford over universities I was much more interested in as it definitely helps in that area. I ended up doing something slightly different but an Oxbridge degree certainly made things a bit easier (it's not a golden ticket but in certain professions does help you get a foot through the door).

I made the decision not to apply to Oxford for the genuinely shallow reason that everyone there was less attractive than at the open day for my eventual choice. I went for the option with the hottest blokes.
School and parents were devastated but it worked out just fine for me 😁
If she enjoys all subjects equally, it could be worth pointing out all the opportunities to pursue enjoyment of the arts outside of degree study, clubs, societies etc. she can focus on a degree with more earning or travel potential. But that depends on if those things are important to her.

You do realise that people who go to other universities manage to have decent careers?

The fetishisation of Oxbridge on here is beyond pathetic

We recruit uni blind but in the past before they made this policy I never paid any attention to which university people went when I recruited. Partially, because I am non-Brit so don’t really know much about UK universities to judge but also we have a lot of people applying with degrees from all over Europe. Instead, I look for particular skills I want on my team/the job needs. I did hire people with no degree over those with top degrees coz they had transferable skills they gained in their previous employment (in unrelated field).
So there is no golden ticket to job market, degree won’t guarantee employment, not even from Oxbridge. I would suggest she studies something she really wants to do rather than aim at something that might give her a job as she might end up with big debt and regrets.

I'll caveat this by saying it's an AI generated response but I have found it useful to plug subjects into google along with suggested careers.

Useful in the sense that it has prompted conversations with my child about where her subject choices could lead and to see if anything leaps off the page as sounding interesting or more of a hell no response.

This is what your daughter's subjects suggested and is obviously not exhaustive.

This unique combination bridges heavy analytical thinking with strong human-centric communication and empathy. You are essentially building a portfolio that proves you can master complex data while also interpreting human behavior and narrative, opening up careers in data-driven psychology, law, tech, and strategic consulting.
Exploring this intersection of disciplines reveals several distinct career pathways:

Data-Driven Psychology & Human Sciences
Behavioral Data Analyst: Uses quantitative maths to map trends in human behavior, marketing choices, or user experience (UX) research. 1, 2]
Occupational Psychologist: Applies psychological theories to workplace behavior, using statistical analysis (from maths) to improve workplace well-being, efficiency, and hiring algorithms. 1]
Neuropsychologist/Researcher: A heavily maths-and-literature-based track. You need maths/statistics to interpret clinical trials and literature to write academic research papers and grant proposals. 1]
Tech, AI & Algorithmic Design
AI Ethics & Policy Researcher: Combines maths and literature. You need a strong quantitative background to understand algorithmic logic, paired with exceptional communication and humanities skills to determine ethical guidelines for tech companies. src="https://www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/5XGz6yP63Eg" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen> 1]
Human-Computer Interaction (HCI) Designer: Bridges psychology and maths. You design intuitive software interfaces that rely on understanding human cognitive behavior while requiring quantitative UI metric testing.

Law, Criminology & Policy
Forensic Psychologist: Evaluates criminal behavior. This requires a deep understanding of psychological profiling and the ability to articulate complex human profiles into polished, logical written reports or legal testimonies.
Criminologist / Policy Advisor: Uses statistical math to evaluate crime data, trends, and policies, paired with literature to write persuasive policy briefs and government proposals.

Business, Strategy & Communications
Strategic Management Consultant: Advises businesses on change management and organizational behavior. This requires analyzing corporate data (maths) and clearly articulating the narrative strategy to stakeholders (literature).
Market Research Director: Merges psychology (understanding consumer habits) with mathematics (data modeling and statistical sampling) and literature (compiling persuasive campaign reports)

Honestly employers don’t care about where you went to university. What job is she doing now? Get working asap if not. I hire a lot and I’d look well on anyone whose worked from a young age

It sounds like she might be a good fit for one of the top flight apprentice schemes - I'd definitely be steering my DC in that direction if they were super bright & unsure what path to choose but focused on future employment prospects. Mine aren't 😆

Does she know what career she’d like to do?

Well I'd be a bit disappointed too. But the competition is fierce. And then loads of folk much brainier than you when you get there. I can see why it's not for everyone.

This is so interesting.

She probably just hopes her daughter retains the ability to spell and punctuate. Unlike some.

“Oxbridge does open more doors but it is my no means the be all and end all. Other life skills are far more important these days.”

The thing is, it is not “either/or”. Many people who attend Oxford or Cambridge do have other life skills! They have jobs in the holidays, they take a year out to travel before uni, they have loads of extracurriculars. It isn’t, as someone put it upthread “an awful hotbed” of MH patients. Majority of people at Oxbridge in my experience are highly articulate, sociable, driven, high-energy, ambitious types and a lot of them are innovators/creative thinkers/“research brains”. They thrive on making connections whether that is intellectually or socially. And most importantly they are usually self-starters with an off-the-scale learning agility and ability to handle very high workload pressure without “breaking”.

To me, that’s what you get when you hire someone from Oxbridge.

Of course there are “nerds” there but it’s not a place that is full of brainiacs with communication issues. On the contrary the tutorial system literally requires you to be able to think aloud to develop and defend your ideas amongst your peers and seniors.

There does seem to be a whole group of people who are bitterly anti-Oxbridge and present a false dichotomy of attending Oxbridge, or graduating elsewhere “with life skills”.

Also, we don't call them schools in the UK.

Oxbridge is helpful if you want to go into eg big law or investment banking.

There are lots of other industries where a good degree from anywhere is all you need!

Your daughter's combination of A Levels is fascinating and unusual. Has she considered architecture?

The creative industries are full of people who are completely hopeless at maths. Consequently, those who can do the maths stuff and want to work in a creative industry are in high demand (they obviously pay less than other industries mathsy people could work in). If she becomes a finance director or in-house lawyer for a big movie studio, record company, or publisher she will be earning good money in an interesting industry.

I work at Oxford and unless someone is very passionate about academia I would say don’t go. The pressure and workload is intense, way more than other unis I’ve worked at and there’s a lot of bullying and snobbery there. Some students love it and thrive but you couldn’t pay me to send my kids there.

So many employers now want to see work experience, resilience and a good interview with a confident and interested young person. It’s sort of a myth that a good degree is a golden ticket.

“Sorry to brag but she's brilliant at everything”

Sorry to break it to you but the same applies to almost all Oxbridge applicants. Just take a look at the WIWIKAU page, full of shocked parents realising that their 12x grade 9, 4x A* children aren’t at all unique and applicants of this calibre are rejected every year.

Also, Oxbridge is really not the golden ticket you seem to think it is.

In the subjects you discussed, Math still comes out tops. The million dollar jobs will require Math skills, not "finance". A.I. has bridged the gap allowing a Math person to do Finance "solo".

Oxbridge is not a golden ticket. Any decent uni and it’s a level playing field tbh.

Im part of the graduate recruitment process as part of my job (finance professional) and we don’t even ask where you go to university. If you meet the criteria for a levels (ABB I think!) and on track for a 2.1 in your degree then you’ll pass the initial screening stage.

Ive interviewed so many graduates at assessment centres and I never knew what uni they went to. It’s designed like that so there’s no unconscious bias and ensures the applicants are judged on their own merit.

Not only is Oxbridge not a Golden Ticket, but the specifics of teaching are not for everyone and not always the best in the country.

If she has no 'burning passion' for any particular subject, then she'd be unlikely to make it through an Oxbridge interview, even if she did apply. Interviewers will be seeing other people with similarly stellar grades and looking for candidates who are enormously interested in their potential degree course and who will benefit from the specific methods of teaching.

I withdrew my application to Cambridge after spending a week there shadowing a student and deciding it was boring. I love my life now so have no regrets about not going, but sometimes wonder if my life would have turned out differently if I’d have gone. Your daughter just has to make the decision that feels right for her now. 3 years is a long time to spend somewhere you hate for a future that may or may not be better because of it.

I'm sure their parents are proud of their kids too...i was just writing with awareness that i might sound like a twat. She's v.v. clever. So are lots of other people.

I second this approach. I cannot believe how much my son & his friends have changed & matured in the last year (18-19 years old).

Question for you, if a potential candidate shows strong command of Pure Math, vs. a another who is a finance person, how would you/your colleagues employ?