DD refusing to consider Oxbridge: are her reasons valid?

[ArtichokeDip]

DD is in year 12 at our local school. She has never related to the studious high achieving crowd at school. They are not the people she finds it easy to be friends with. She is quite a hedonist and enjoys parties, clubs, dancing, long nights out.

At GCSE she got exceptional grades for her school: 5x9, 4x8. Her passio is English Lit and she wants to study that at uni. Her A-level English teacher says she is already consistently working at A star level and that seems to be true for History and for RE too. This week the school asked her to join a new Oxbridge application prep group they are trailing . DD declined.

DD is convinced she won’t make friends at Oxbridge because she believes everyone will be very studious and there will be few people who enjoy nights out like she likes. She says there will be too much study and not enough fun. Are these valid reasons? How much is it worth pushing back and trying to change her mind? She currently only dreams of applying to big Northern city unis with busy night lives: Manchester, Leeds, Newcastle. All great places but is it crazy not to explore Oxbridge applications if you have a chance?

Haven’t read all the replies - but my DS is at Cambs and seems to be partying quite a lot 😂 In terms of big nightclubs or gigs, it’s not going to London or Manchester of course…but students seem to have a good time. He has some mates at Oxford and it sounds similar.

Yes they work hard, but they’re hardly studying round the clock! Your dd should visit and see if it’s for her before ruling it out.

I would say that your DD needs to apply where she wants to. It should be her decision.
My DD didn’t apply, got 3 A* and an A at A level and she is having her “what if?” moment now.
But, your DD does need to be more broad minded in terms of people. Just because someone is studious doesn’t mean they’re not fun. It sounds to me like she writes people off before getting to know them.

My son went to grammar school and got those exact grades for gcses - we didn’t even consider oxbridge and his school never suggested it either. Lots of kids from his grammar did apply to oxbridge, it’s hard work a student needs to be someone who a) wants to go) and b) knuckles down and works hard as it’s very intense.

My daughter went to Cambridge- she is definitely NOT the partying type and thrived in the studious atmosphere. It’s not for everyone. She just worked constantly with very few rest / party type breaks. Stem subject.

My daughter is Y12 and is going to give it a go....but she is one of about 70 in her 6th form college on the programme. And she has 11 GCSEs but if say her chances are slim. And what they have to do for early entry is time consuming if they are doing 4 A-levels and hobbies. If she isn't reaikern I'd leave it. I hope my daughter will get to a Russell group uni in the end and I think that will be fine.if she wasn't keen if tell her not to waste her time and concentrate on what she wants to be in life. It's hard to develop an identity when you are trying to mould yourself to a rigid set of expectations.

These are good GCSEs but not exceptional, sorry. Achievable for most bright and hard working dc.

The OP said they are exceptional for the school.

Regardless, this is mumsnet where all mumsnetters' DC achieve all 9s. In the real world 8s and 9s are amazing grades. Most DC don't achieve this grades.

I genuinely can't see how Oxbridge students are any different in terms of their personalities to students at any other uni who got As and A stars at school. Why would they be?

Oxbridge deliberately selects for certain types of students. So of course there will be differences, considering the student body as a whole with other universities who predominantly take A and A star students.

Oxbridge won't decide on GCSEs anyway.

Lots of candidates might be good at gcses but are not the sort of candidate they are looking for. GCSEs don't require much independent thought which is a different type of skill the aptitude tests and interviews are designed to detect.

Ultimately it is her choice and she needs to go where she will be happy. But I think it would be a shame not to at least go and look at Oxford and Cambridge. They are both beautiful cities and the universities have a different feel to each other. It does no harm to go and look round he place. Maybe try and suggest that, even if you go when it isn't an open day, as a prospective student you can go and look round colleges for free (unless there is an event on).

Oh come on, any of us would try to talk anyone we knew - friend, workmate, parent, child, sibling - out of making any decision on such an arbitrary basis. I'm not advocating pushiness towards Oxbridge but it's obviously not reasonable to expect that a caring parent will express no view on something like university choice at all.

Although in a school where those are exceptional GCSEs, it's unusual for there to be an Oxbridge prep group. (Unless the group is only 3 students or something).

I was pushed to apply, didn't and I don't regret it. I would not have fit in and 3 years is a long time.

I totally understand you wanting her to at least 'go and see' and then she can make an informed decision. There is no harm just having a look and I get you encouraging her to have an open mind.

However I do agree with others here in that she seems to have already made her mind up that she doesn't want to go there. Ultimately the Uni experience is hers and she must chose one that she feels comfortable with and has the right vibe for her or she will not flourish.

I would say encourage her to have an open mind, explain your reasoning behind it, but then leave her to make her own decision as to what she does and accept it.

Good Luck. Its really difficult because we just want them to make the right choices and to be happy. Its very hard to take a step back and let them 'adult'.

Edited to add, my DD is at Liverpool and is having a fabulous 'party experience' as she is also into clubs and dancing. But she works bloody hard too. She is thoroughly enjoying the Uni that she chose to go to.

FGS leave her alone. She can make her own decisions.

IME, if she goes to the prep classes just to try them out, there will be more pressure on her from school to apply.

Thanks all. I am amazed by how many replies this has got! I’ve found it really helpful. It’s helped me really see DD’s side

to answer a few recurring questions:

1. Why do I want to push her to Oxbridge?

I really don’t! I just want her to explore the option before rejecting it. And I think the application prep group is a good idea for other applications.

1. why do I think which uni she goes to is my business?

surely the role of a parent is to guide and encourage kids to research their choices and think of issues we can make them aware of that they haven’t yet learned about? That’s not the same telling her her decisions are wrong and to revisit them which I suppose one could do as we will be paying her way at uni but I would never dream of doing that and never implied I would.

1. Why do I think she’d get in with several 8s and only 9 GCSEs overall?

I don’t! I have no idea whether she would get in but the school advised she had a good chance given the context of the school she goes to and her engagement with the subject.

1. Why let her study English or go to uni at all given the costs and lack of work prospects?

no idea how to answer this. She loves English. She reads all night long if I let her. Books alight her mind. What am I meant to do? Tell her computer science is a better choice for a girl whose souls would shrivel up and die in a comp sci class? And I want her to go to uni for the experience which I think she will love. Who knows what the future job market looks like? All we can know is how to seize the opportunities in front of us today, follow our interests and enjoy our lives right now.

I did the same as your daughter, many years ago, declining to join the Oxbridge group. I was a total self starter from a working class family and drove myself hard to get to uni in the first place. Having put in 12 years of graft I wanted a more relaxed environment for my further studies. DH went to Oxford and hated it - we are similar characters so I feel vindicated.

DD's employer will only employ graduates with a first and from a Russell Group uni (DD was an exception, partly due to the extra curricular she'd done at uni and the fact it was exactly what his small business did, she pushed for a chat despite being refused an interview and apparently was a very strong interviewee). I can't imagine there are many who will insist they require a first at Oxbridge, they'll look equally at what they have to offer from other top ranked universities or the people themselves.

Ultimately you can't force her to go on the programme, all you can do if suggest she keeps her options open.

DD actually got a scholarship for sixth form at a private school, and quite a lot of other students actually wanted to go to Newcastle.

So how is an English student who got all 9s and A stars at Cambridge, different to one with the same grade profile at Durham or St Andrews where they don't even interview?

I don't buy into this notion of 'Cambridge tutors know what they are looking for.' If that were true, practically everyone there would get a first. The reality is, every year they turn down students who would have sailed through there, while admitting students who struggle. I remember in DS' case, when the admissions stats for his subject at the college came out, they had interviewed 41 for 7 places. But only 4 actually showed up in Oct because 3 of the offerees didn't get the minimum grades for their offer which were 'only' A star, A, A. I will bet that most of the students who were turned down went on to exceed this minimum offer and they'll be doing their thing at other unis. DS's college had to take someone from the summer pool, literally last minute in August.

I went to Oxbridge. If she's properly into clubbing then it will probably be a bit of a letdown. Plenty of opportunities for socialising/parties - in the first year or two it was normal to go out most nights a week. Nights out seemed a bit more casual than at some other unis, though - not so dressy (flat shoes back when heels were still the norm), fewer clubs and they closed quite early etc.

It sounds like her current approach is working really well for her, so I'd be inclined to let her carry on. If she's somewhere she's carefully picked out herself then hopefully she will continue to make the best of it and thrive. She could always look at postgrad if she later became curious about Oxbridge.

Edited to add: depending on what's involved I'd still gently encourage her to join the Oxbridge prep group, even if she doesn't ultimately apply. Assuming there will be a visit/an opportunity to speak to current staff or students then it will be a good way for her to test it out a bit. I think applying to uni is a bit like choosing a wedding dress - you have certain preconceptions about what you're going to like, what will suit you etc. but once you try them you can surprise yourself!

All we can know is how to seize the opportunities in front of us today, follow our interests and enjoy our lives right now.

Absolutely! But in a way, isn't that what DD is thinking?

Btw her gcses are easily "good enough"; it's more that within a certain band they just aren't that relevant. A bit like saying I have feet so can win a marathon (I exaggerate, but you get my point. There is a lot more to it.)

You are not wrong to take an interest or seek to have input btw.

I was straight As and also refused to consider Oxbridge. Its also less prestigious now than it was back then.
She sounds like she would love the big city unis to be fair.

Any reasons are valid - it’s totally up to her.

My DS was being pushed for Oxbridge but after going to open days decided it wasn’t for him and went to Manchester (which incidentally is the most sought after uni by employers). I would encourage her to go to open days before she makes any final decisions though, she needs to be making the decisions with some background knowledge.

Oxbridge is way too woke. My son will be going to university outside the UK or on an apprenticeship in the UK. Have invested to facilitate this.

Your DD sounds amazing. Leave her be, she's not interested!