Devastated DD - awful reference

[AnonymousStudentParent]

My undergraduate DD recently asked her Personal Tutor, by email, whether he could be her referee for a summer school (prestigious, with a generous scholarship scheme). She attached a link to the website of the summer school and underscored the information relating to the reference. She didn't hear back from her Personal Tutor immediately but after about 3 weeks he emailed briefly saying he'd already submitted the reference (she had anticipated him getting back to her for clarification on a couple of things she had done that she had mentioned in the email that he didn't know about). Yesterday she had a quick beginning of term meeting with him when he outlined to her the devastating terms of the reference, basically saying she was too young and under qualified for the summer school but a nice hardworking person if they wanted to take a chance on her.

My DD is neither too young nor under qualified for the summer school - quite the contrary, she's very amply qualified (though mostly outside the scope of her degree). It's in an area she is extremely knowledgeable about and she has properly researched the summer school. She spent several days in the Christmas holidays writing the extensive application.

She was too flabbergasted to react (and her time with the PT was up) on the spot. Needless to say, this isn't good for her self-confidence. Any advice to how she goes back to the PT and asks him whether he can spend a few minutes looking at the website and her application and rethink his hasty judgement? The deadline for submission of the application isn't for another couple of weeks.

Fair enough.

That said, What I’m thinking here is that the OP said that the requirements for this summer school were released right before Christmas, so that is when the request went in. Now, in that case, it may have been wise to include all the information to the PT …. Take some initiative maybe?

I thought that too.

Sadly I can well believe the posts about ineffectual PTs.

But someone who would set out to sabotage their tutee with a bad letter is harder to believe, and if they were going to do it I don’t know that the letter OP had described would be the most effective approach.

I once needed a letter from someone well known who strongly favoured his own student for a certain fellowship. It would have looked odd not to have a letter from him. This guy had done a lot to discourage me from applying, so I was terrified. But I got the fellowship and his student didn’t (until later).

People don’t generally put unsound opinions into writing. As I said earlier, I think this is complex and the PT should not have written.
Calling it potential sabotage on the evidence seems a stretch, however.

Ok, but in 1/3 of universities, academics are waiting for the axe to fall to lose their jobs. I wish that university management would rethink the roles but what is really happening is workloads are going to keep increasing and increasing. It will get worse before it gets better. Everyone is losing out.

This is the result of universities being made businesses and education as being seen as mostly, if not purely vocational.

I agree that sabotage is a pretty strong accusation too.

You don’t mean the slippery slope fallacy: you mean a reductio ad absurdum. And of course I did it deliberately. It’s a rhetorical device as much as a philosophical argument.

But I continue to disagree with your point. Better that the OP speculates on an anonymous forum (where none of the parties can be identified), however unhinged some of that speculation may be, than to her DD or anyone else in real life. And she has made NO suggestion that she is sharing this with her DD, planning to march up to the university, or make a complaint. She asked for advice that she could give to her daughter. And I think, buried in the surprising vitriol of the thread, there may be some useful nuggets.

That's not what I said. The details of the summer school were released before the Christmas holidays (which started in mid December) and the deadline for submission of application is 31 January; my DD is very good at knowing her institution's policies and procedures (which are strictly enforced, for students at least) and realised that she needed to get in touch quickly with her PT if she was to meet the institutional guideline of giving him at least 5 weeks' notice of needing a reference. She gave him all the information required for that first contact and did not, in accordance with guidelines, "take initiative" ie give any additional information. It's hardly her fault if the information on the summer schools is published in mid-December with a 31 January deadline. My DD had of course read up on the previous year's information but that was insufficient to make a request to her PT. Quite apart from anything, the dates of this particular summer school move around quite a bit each year and my DD needed the dates to work with another possible commitment before making a final decision on whether to apply.

This thread seems to have taken on a weird life of its own with some posters inventing new scenarios and engaging in heated debates with other posters about entirely imaginary events. Since those posters are mostly academics, or claim to be, it is both alarming (how can they be so divorced from the need to base discussion in factual evidence?) and slightly reassuring (clearly references are not viewed as terribly important in academia).

Well. I do. Slippery slope can be a case where the advocate believes it will lead to a chain reaction resulting in an undesirable end or ends.

You said: So as soon as someone hits 18 they’re not supposed to talk to their mother about anything and mothers are supposed to stop caring about their children?

So one act of not getting involves means no care for children. (Which is also absurd, and an undesirable end)

I think the fact that the OP is speculating in an unhinged manner does not make me sanguine that she won’t march up to the university, make a complaint, or share it with her daughter. I’ve had parents threaten to sue me when I told them I could not discuss their child’s marks. And that is extremely absurd in real life.

I am not sure if the PT was the right person for the reference. Unless it was obligatory. The OP says the reference was for something outside the scope of the course. Therefore how would the PT know the DDs strengths and attributes for the position? They can say she’s hard working, pleasant etc but how can they judge her qualifications for the position if they don’t even know she has them?

I know my DD got a reference (or two) from her PT for academic courses after graduating where a uni referee was required. Not entirely sure this is the case here? Why not get a referee who knows what DDs skills and attributes actually are that correspond to the position? Not a PS who doesn’t.

My DD feels betrayed (she was confident that her PT would write a supportive reference) but we have certainly not discussed together the idea that this was a purposeful act of sabotage. Sure, it is useful to think about how and why these unanticipated events might have arisen and just perhaps there is a reason why my DD did not get the very supportive reference she expected that is more than just carelessness.

The unhinged speculation on this thread is mostly yours, @BeAzureAnt - everyone is able to read back over the thread and see your imagination running away with you!

It's hardly her fault if the information on the summer schools is published in mid-December with a 31 January deadline.

Right, but considering that, you don’t think your DD should have provided all the information to the PT? it is over the holidays.

Speaking of factual evidence, do you think your assessment of your DD abilities and application is unbiased?

References are part of an application. They do have their importance.

When people start making insults, they are losing the argument.

Are you and your DD any clearer on how she is going to proceed @AnonymousStudentParent?

I think the PT should have said if he felt he couldn’t write a good reference or he felt limited in what he could say so your DD would have the option to find someone else. I can’t imagine writing something like that.
As an aside, and I don’t know if this applies to your DD, I’ve found some students completely ignore emails about offering to meet until they need something which is frustrating because they haven’t taken the opportunity for you to know them better.

But from what I recall, upthread you did speculate that the poor letter was to favour the PT’s own students

I think my DD should have done everything according to the university guidelines, which she always does as the penalties for not doing so are very harsh! She provided absolutely all the information both required and allowed.

Right. Speaking of factual evidence, do you think your assessment of your DD abilities and application is unbiased?

I wondered, as the thread progressed, whether there might be an explanation beyond carelessness. Competitive summer schools receive many competitive applications and very probably there are other applicants from my DD's university and possibly one of those might be a tutee of my DD's PT?

I have her transcripts (her grades are all excellent) and a copy of her CV, which obviously I know all about since I have witnessed her going about those activities which speak to her exceptional commitment to her subject over many years.

I think that's reasonable as speculation goes. You never know when human nature is involved.

It's probably more likely that he couldn't be bothered to do it properly, I'd think.

What a weird reference. My personal tutor was all over the place so your DD has my sympathies.

My DD really isn't the ignoring email type - she's the one whose first to sign up for everything. Completely on top of her agenda.

That’s quite an accusation. I think that unless you had proof of that, that a formal complaint to the university alleging this might no go down too well. I also hope you aren’t suggesting such a thing to your daughter sans proof

She sounds like a very capable young woman. I think most of us are capable of making a far assessment of our children's abilities. I think most parents are reasonably intelligent and reasonably realistic. I know there are 'outliers' but you don't come across as one at all.