Uni advice for potential barrister

[HecticHettie]

School and websites have given a lot of what I have now come to believe may be duff advice so I hope Mumsnet can help. My highly academic daughter wants to be a barrister and numerous well-meaning friends have told her to study another subject first then convert to law. However, when we went to uni open days (Oxford, Cambridge, King’s and Durham) we were explicitly told that if you want to be a high-flying barrister (not solicitor), studying law at undergraduate is pretty much essential if you want to keep all specialisms open. Apparently you can be a barrister by converting later but are restricted to family law etc (less
legal heavy). I am so confused as seen so many posts and people seem to confuse advice for barristers and solicitors. I would be grateful to hear from barrister parents only

Just check age some are 18 plus.

Yes.

Different chambers have different fee structure as you might know. Some charge a % of fees, some a flat "rent" and some a combination. Either of the latter two options could add up to a substantial portion of a junior tenant's fees.

@eurochick The figure of £42,000 will
be gross earnings. I’m wondering if some people posting actually know how the self employed bar works. Transport out of London and overnight stays for cases cost a hell of a lot. Typically Chambers take 20% or more. Then there’s tax and NI and pension to pay. . A headline “earnings” of £42,000 really is not very much when you know the full picture. It’s immediately £34,000 out of which you pay ALL your expenses. The only plus point might be paying very little grad tax or none of course. It can be very tough for the first few years. So yes, typically half of the headline figure can be expenses and payments to chambers leaving not much to live on.

If you are referring to me, yes I do know how the self-employed bar works.

@HistoryMmam So you do understand £42,000 is not a salary then? Your post seemed to say it was. You do know there are costs to be borne by the self employed? Do you? Plus Chambers costs? Or maybe your maths isn’t great?

I’m just going to ignore you @TizerorFizz

Well the £42k might be gross earnings. I would guess it is but we don't know - the poster didn't give details or a source. That's why I said "if" in my reply. But I agree with everything else you say.

This article might be helpful...data is 4 years out of date but shows the range of earnings...

https://www.thelawyer.com/issues/l2b-online/barrister-salary/#

Not on topic, but related to the prospects for, and of becoming, a baby junior in a criminal set…

A common complaint I hear is that criminal sets take on many more pupils than they know they’ll ever offer tenancy to. The purpose being to churn low level, loss-making second-six work to keep sols happy so that the seniors can maintain the lucrative instructions. At the end of pupillage many of the pupils get binned.

I strongly suspect there is some truth in this. But how prevalent it is I don’t know. Crime is not my area. I can say with confidence that this is very rare in civil work, if it happens at all: civil tenancy decisions are pretty much purely on merit and suitability. Civil practice doesn’t allow for that model of pupillage anyway.

All in all, I would be wary about recommending criminal practice to an aspiring barrister.

Rummly,I agree (as a solicitor who uses the commercial bar).

A parent asked about mini-pupillages above. Usually this is something for which students apply at university whether their degree is law or not and is part of the tasks they are likely to do to try to have a good law orientated CV whilst at university and doing their applications. Of course it is always helpful if someone can see some work - eg at age 16 sometimes schools leave pupils to arrange a week of work experience in any careers the teenager wants. It is how to persuade someone to tolerate it which is hard. I cannot work with anyone else around and work alone from my house so have always refused people asking to do shadowing or hang around with me whilst I work (which would be very boring for them anyway in house typing - it could be like watching paint dry).

As a teenager I did go into my local courts in Newcastle on my own when I was 17 and it was really interesting. I will always remember the court clerk letting me go into a family law hearing between two parents who were divorcing and both wanted the children - no lawyers were present and both were so upset.

@Rummly The “third six” is very common now. It’s absolutely not just the criminal bar. When pupils are not taken on as tenants, they need a third 6 elsewhere. A six is 6 months as you probably know. This happened to DDs friends who had very high pupilage awards from top chambers. They had very strong legal credentials. However it will be about “fit”. Some chambers over recruit. Some chambers just think there’s better out there. Getting rid is something even grade 1 sets do in all areas. Others recruit third six pupils from elsewhere if they want to expand. Often third six pupils have to trade down but DDs friends actually traded up. It’s not an exact science and some barristers at a chambers have more sway than others when deciding who to keep.

The Bar Council has Good Practice guidelines.

Usually mini pupillages are done when at university and have precise closing dates for applications. Most barristers do at least 1. More than that is highly beneficial. Year 12 would be work experience.