Uni advice for potential barrister

[HecticHettie]

School and websites have given a lot of what I have now come to believe may be duff advice so I hope Mumsnet can help. My highly academic daughter wants to be a barrister and numerous well-meaning friends have told her to study another subject first then convert to law. However, when we went to uni open days (Oxford, Cambridge, King’s and Durham) we were explicitly told that if you want to be a high-flying barrister (not solicitor), studying law at undergraduate is pretty much essential if you want to keep all specialisms open. Apparently you can be a barrister by converting later but are restricted to family law etc (less
legal heavy). I am so confused as seen so many posts and people seem to confuse advice for barristers and solicitors. I would be grateful to hear from barrister parents only

PS I should add that my daughter actively wants to study law although teachers are pressing her to apply to Oxbridge for Modern Languages as easier to get a place!

I may be out of date but I'd go for law. My first degree was law (Oxford) then business.
A GDL is not broad enough. My niece has completed a bachelor then masters of law.
If the law is your daughter's passion it will come across in her interviews.
She can do law with languages.

Just had a look at the recent joiners at a family members Chambers- prestigious London one. About half had law degrees. The others had a mixture of History, Theology etc. All firsts from good Universities. Plenty of top barristers still do degrees in subjects other than law first. I'd go with what she wants to study.

The major downside of a non-law degree is having to do the conversion course. If she wants to do law, she should do it! It's an interesting degree.

Also you don't do any specialism in the conversion.

You just do the core 7 subjects.

Whereas a law degree you do other subjects like commercial law or company law or tax law /family law.

A 3 year law degree enables much more wider reading than a 12 months Crammer conversion course.

If she wants to do law she should- although if it's more important for her to go to Oxford or Cambridge her teachers are probably right about modern languages!

Order of preference:

1. any Oxbridge degree
2. Russell group/top law degree
3. lower uni law degree
4. other subject at lower uni.

Go through chambers lists and read the bios of their barristers.

I’m a solicitor, but regularly instruct barristers as I am a litigator so I thought I would take a look at what some of my go-to barristers studied at university to help you with your question. One studied art history (Cambridge), another PPE (Oxford), another law and French (Bristol). Others studied law. Studying something other than Law is not going to be a barrier to your daughter becoming a barrister, but if she wants to study law anyway then I don’t see why she shouldn’t take that route.

Please only do the subject you love especially at Oxbridge . The teachers are not doing the subject for 3/4 years and it's intense. Although saying that my friend changed to law from languages in her 2nd year at Cambridge but that was 25 years ago.

Just another bit of info, you are not allowed to work as an undergrad at Oxford. The halls and food are pretty low cost for that reason. However I think you can do a bit of charity work. Oxfam etc

@HecticHettie My DD is doing MFL at Oxford and thinking of being a barrister. She is loving her languages degree so a different situation to your DD. Yes admission stats for languages are higher - but applicants need to show a passion for languages and if accepted your DD would need to spend 4 years reading languages, not for the faint hearted.. The English Bar is still (in my opinion) ridiculously biased in favour of Oxbridge but there we are.

It is not true that you can only do Family Law if you do a conversion course. That seems very odd advice.

One thing my DD has found is that she's not allowed to join the Uni Law societies or the moot competitions as she's not reading Law. She will have to pick up on that while doing a conversion / bar course. But as others have said plenty of barristers didn't read law.

All in all if your DD really wants to read law why not go for it but if its a toss up between MFL and law then MFL at Oxford is a super course - very well taught and lots of contact time. 42% acceptance for MFL compared with 11% for law

You really do need to have a first in your UG degree to be a barrister - it is much more difficult even with a 2:1. Then university matters - pretty much the list set out above.

I practised as a barrister until I had children - I did environmental so it was really incompatible to do the travelling and at that point I switched to being a solicitor. I did classics at university followed by the conversion course. I got pupillage in a public law set and really took to the enviromental stuff - other people who were similar experience to me did much more education etc so there can be a pretty good mix once you're in chambers.

I'd like to ask people in the industry if "magic circle" solicitor firms have in house barristers for when the cases go to court.

Barrister here. At my set we're looking for at least a 2.1 in your first degree, and a good mark on the GDL. We look at the marks not the uni but that may not be the case everywhere. It's better for your degree to be in something academic, probably, but I always advise people to do something they love/are fascinated by in their first degree. If that's law then great, but Firsts are very common now amongst applicants and it's hard to get a First or high 2.1 if you aren't interested in your studies.

I should add that plenty of people (me included) found academic law very dry and practice fascinating and fulfilling. I partly did it because an LLB is usually accredited and exempts you from the GDL, and I didn't have much money for a qualification that I didn't have to take. But if that wasn't a consideration I would study something I loved.

Some of them do but they still tend to go to the Bar with the most complex cases.

Whilst I know many a barrister who studied something other than law as a first degree personally I'd advise reading law for a first degree because

1. cost
2. speed- conversion adds another year of study
3. better diversity of subject matter in law degree enabling more meaningful applications for pupillage to chambers that match strengths/desired practice areas
4. she actually might not like law - better to find out over the course of a law degree than waste another 2 years with conversion and professional training.

Only half of my year are still 'lawyers' after reading law (jurisprudence) but all are very successful in their fields. Oxbridge

Just one more point which might be relevant for conversion / law - I went to the bar later so I left university, worked full time for 3 years while studying the GDL as an evening class for 2 years then did the BVC and pupillage.

That meant that I'd saved up enough money to cover my living expenses for BVC and was lucky enough to get a scholarship from my inn of court which covered the BVC costs.

It did take longer, but the debts involved can be so astronomical and it can take so long to earn money that it was a sensible financial decision to delay.

I have two friends who are barristers, neither of whom studied law. One did do Greats at Oxford which is probably as close as you can get without doing law and the other did a science degree at a RG uni. One does criminal and one does corporate so it is absolutely not the case that you can only do family law if you don't do a law degree!

One of my lawyer DC is a barrister (two others are solicitors). She read Law at Oxford and enjoyed it enormously - not dry to her mind at all. She was lucky to have outstanding tutors. Three years of that level of law teaching was certainly transformative in the way she thinks and processes legal problems.

The advantages are: breadth, for sure. The conversion option is very limited in scope. Also as Juja says, the opportunity to do mooting - moots are open for all practical purposes only to those reading Law. And finally, doing a postgrad degree in Law is (again, for all practical purposes) restricted to lawyers too. Those who are successful in getting top pupillages at the London Bar very often not only have an excellent first degree but have the BCL or a good postgrad degree from elsewhere.

Schools can be extremely limp in their advice. Ignore limp advice.

Absolutely right about Greats.

Thank you for all the helpful replies - really useful. But @Goxhound has blown me away - what a detailed and (in my view) definitive response. Thank you so much for the best reply ever!

Isn't that chat gpt?

Totally!