My son not thriving at Cambridge

[Masalamother]

My son is 1st year at Cambridge and got all A stars at A levels. He was so pleased to get offer but reality is different. His school friends at other universities doing same course (Durham and Nottingham) have much less work and more fun time. He says they are getting firsts in assessments but he is only getting a 2.1 - even though he topped them easily at school. His course is harder - 2 essays a week whereas they do one a fortnight. He was always told to apply for the best university but now thinks he should have gone to a lesser one as degree class is what counts. I don’t know what to say to him. He probably should have had a year out because he seems very burnt out and disillusioned… All degrees are not the same - he/we never realised that! The advice of his teachers to “be aspirational” was simplistic

Dd (Cambridge) has been clearly told don’t turn up for lectures unless you need them. They are the back up and interest. The key thing is turn up for the 1-2-1 supervision and if you know your stuff great but if you don’t then use the amazing resources at your fingertips: lectures, labs, libraries, tutors, directors of studies, faculty specialists, college parents etc etc.

@BritainDoesNotAppearToHaveTalent this is very true, the small tutorial system means they are much more accountable and personally responsible if they don't turn up or send their essays in. You are right that Oxbridge students can dodge lectures more though as I used to do the same occasionally myself.

@Lassi the trend was downwards for attendance and Covid accelerated that, for sure. Students got used to not attending, watching online but not always very attentively and just didn't come back afterwards, despite saying they wanted more contact time.

I do emphasise though that for those that want it, there's heaps of opportunities for personal engagement and teaching, so it really is up to the student, I have some very good students, some medium attenders and some who are not seen whatsoever, not once, in a whole course. They send in a mediocre essay at the deadline.

I'm going to redesign my assessments next year to try to ensure attendance at least a few sessions is necessary, but ultimately I wish the university would just act consistently and from the top.

That doesn't sound especially unusual. It's precisely because of the tutorials and the associated work that students still get a full understanding of topics without attending lectures. Very different from not attending law lectures at a different uni, eg Durham, where lectures were/are the bread and butter of learning.

Life is too short for your DS to be unhappy for his whole university career. However, I would encourage him to work hard to make friendships in Cambridge rather than spending all his time regretting he is not in the same place as his school friends. Also, an Oxbridge degree does open doors - there are lots of companies who conduct recruitment fairs there, networking opportunities, etc. Whatever the degree subject, the workload is intense and the ability to study at that level is recognised.

No I didn’t read law at Oxford or Cambridge. My children did outreach days/courses with Oxbridge tutors locally and at the universities and just made up their own minds. Plus the courses they wanted to do weren’t strongest at Oxford/Cambridge so they went to the best courses.

@JustMeAndTheFish who was it that never forgave you? If it was your parents that is pretty shitty.

Hello, just want to say i haven’t read the thread fully so i might be about to repeat what lots of others have said.

when it comes to cambridge… degree class does not matter. Employers will likely not even look at his class if cambridge is attached to it. Don’t pay attention to what they say their requirements are for a role. Its more about experience and a 2.1 from cambridge is probably akin to graduating with a good level of experience under your belt. A much more attractive hire than a 1st from durham.

p.s. I work in higher education albeit in an unusual role in a postgrad professional institution

Just to note, this is definitely not the case for science degrees!

I mean absolutely fair not to apply but your DC actually have no experience of the environment at Oxford or Cambridge so they can't really add much to any discussion of pressure or work/life balance at either uni.

I don't think my DC ever bothered to look at rankings. Although actually glancing at the rankings across the board it's quite hard to find a mainstream subject where Cambridge and/ or Oxford don't corner the market in best.

We visited Cambridge Uni last year and my son found it really depressing and the students all seemed really sad. There was no fun
there.

Even the maths professor (retiring) told us Cambridge wasn’t a great uni and gave us a list of the good ones for maths. He said having a Cambridge on your CV will get you a job but that’s all it’s good for.

That's not at all what I've observed of the place and the students there I know.

My son swapped to a different uni and course at the end of his first year. It was the right decision and he has gone on to an excellent career.

Sorry your son found it depressing...I have had the completely opposite experience when visiting my son..there is a dynamism and energy about the city (and in his college) that's infectious...it's not for everyone, and that's absolutely fine!

Agreed...my son is flat out with labs and lectures and spends his holidays catching up with concepts and lectures he didn't understand the first time...(he joked all of the pro Hamas/Palestine protestors camping out must be humanities or arts students - STEM ones don't have time!)

I found it a HUGE culture shock and it battered my ego not being easily top of the class without much effort like I had been my whole life. They don’t give out firsts much, it’s more for exemplary work. I always got a 2.1 despite getting basically full marks in my a-levels. I survived it rather than thrived. I wish I could do it all again with the confidence I have now. As a working class girl (first in my family to go to university) I felt terribly out of place and self conscious!

Cambridge (and Oxford) degrees are more difficult and have higher expectations because a Bachelor of Arts from those unis comes with the possibility of being awarded an MA (6 yrs after your first term) provided that you get your BA(hons)

Surely,you checked this out before applying. Your DS will have known this up front

Yes. Even the star lecturers in my Faculty now achieve only about 20% attendance and we think it is down to recorded lectures.

In principle there were two admirable purposes: to relieve the burden of making special recordings for SEN students, and to provide an option for those rare times students could not attend for good reason. Furthermore aggregate data show that students neither watch lectures nor download lecture notes until preparing for an assessment. Meanwhile the quality of their work suffers badly. All very depressing, and we are an excellent university. Or, in terms of the UG cohort, were.

My children studied vet science then conservation science, mechanical engineering then industrial digitisation and social work + masters and when they were applying to uni the Oxbridge courses really weren’t the best to go for. They were “encouraged” by their school as it looks good on the school prospectus if they get a lot of students into those universities. They would all have done wherever they were but I still believe that the course and the teaching are much more relevant to the individual.

Yup. I finished my degree and went straight into a job in the city which I’d been offered before even sitting my final exams. Nothing was said directly but there has always been that quiet feeling of disappointment; leading to me always feeling not quite good enough. My mum used to send me cuttings from the local paper about girls from my school cohort who were doing “amazing things” and even now that dad is 95 he still points out the place where his friend’s daughter practises- every time I visit. All this despite the fact that my brother, the medical golden boy, treated them like shit 15 years ago and mum never saw him again before she died. As soon as dad goes I am buying myself some quality counselling!!

The fact that you're taking so much (detailed) interest in the young man's academic life is great. Cambridge has a system of education (smaller terms, fewer lectures, individaul/small group supervision, etc.) which is structurally different to most other universities. Also, it's early days for him to settle down. Cambridge can be a lonely place. Away from home and a very caring mother, living independently for the first time, your son needs more "emotional" & practical support, which clearly you're providing. Most boys need more "emotional" & practical support than girls, in my experience in earlier phases of "indepence". It'll all work out well. Changing to other universities? Perish the thought!!

Oxbridge isn't for everyone. It is a different learning experience than other Universities, the terms are very short and therefore the work load and pressure higher. My DD turned down Cambridge in favour of St Andrew's (and has met others that did the same). She had a couple of friends at Cambridge the year above and felt the pressure would be too much and wanted more to student life. Some of her friends who went to Oxbridge are loving it and embracing the academic rigor, some are struggling. Yes an Oxbridge degree will always be highly regarded but I'm not sure it's worth being unhappy for three years.

I can see that with those courses applying elsewhere makes sense.

Can he swap to straight history? A friends daughter did that and loved it.

Of course there's fun. These are cities with a huge youthful population in term time. They're bursting with fun - as well as hard work. And of course there are struggles too, sometimes behind closed doors sometimes not (I came across four separate girls crying on their phones on one single walk around the Parks in Oxford last week. As DD said: 'Yeah, it's called Finals'). And one jaded professor isn't representative; you need a much bigger sample than that. I'm not quite sure how people who have merely visited once or whose DC have attended outreach days can damn the cities and institutions with so much conviction.

I agree about exploring the possibility of changing to History. Of necessity that would need to be done after exams and after doing pretty well in them - I suspect he'd need good results for bargaining strength. If nothing else, a change of course may provide the reset the DS seems to need.