My son not thriving at Cambridge

[Masalamother]

My son is 1st year at Cambridge and got all A stars at A levels. He was so pleased to get offer but reality is different. His school friends at other universities doing same course (Durham and Nottingham) have much less work and more fun time. He says they are getting firsts in assessments but he is only getting a 2.1 - even though he topped them easily at school. His course is harder - 2 essays a week whereas they do one a fortnight. He was always told to apply for the best university but now thinks he should have gone to a lesser one as degree class is what counts. I don’t know what to say to him. He probably should have had a year out because he seems very burnt out and disillusioned… All degrees are not the same - he/we never realised that! The advice of his teachers to “be aspirational” was simplistic

Speaking as a Cambridge graduate (of several decades ago), I'd suggest that a 2:1 from Cambridge may help your son as much as 1st from some other Universities. I'd also point out that your son can change courses at Cambridge at the end of his Part 1 Tripos (after 1 or 2 years) - many of my friends there did, and I did so myself. So tell him to try to join clubs/societies & play sport (or whatever he enjoys), do the work and remember that he'll look back on these years with pleasure; I know I do.

@Masalamother Sorry if this has already been said (i haven't read the full thread) but you are welcome to come and chat on the oxford&cambridge thread - lots of people there will give very helpful advice if you want to join us!
Lots of students struggle in the first year at any university, so i hope your child manages to work out what is best for them

This one?

Current Oxford/Cambridge students support/chat continued (2) www.mumsnet.com/Talk/higher_education/4930798-current-oxfordcambridge-students-supportchat-continued-2

He can switch at year end. Is that what he wants? To go to another uni?

Hello I work in University Welfare. Encourage your
DS to seek support from the pastoral care team at his college as it sounds like he would benefit from this. He has done incredibly well to get to this point of the year and I assume will be finishing soon. The first year at uni is very difficult for many and I assure you he won’t be the only one feeling similar. Also it has to to be led by him, much as I’m sure you would want to intervene on his behalf. Wishing you all the best.

Re the sports and other clubs - may be worth mentioning that some students may feel they've missed the boat if they don't join up in freshers (or the ones they do join don't work out). Dd has stayed in the area and is involved with one of the clubs - a low key friendly one - and they run taster/beginners sessions at various points in the year.

A 2:1 at Cambridge will be worth more than a first at another university. As everyone knows it’s harder to get in and a harder degree to get. Just having Cambridge on his cv will open a lot of doors.

if he’s struggling at no longer being the “best” it’s just because rather than being in a school with a broad range of abilities he’s only mixing with the best of the best from schools across the country. He perhaps needs you to help him adjust his perspective here.

This is why a 2:1 from Cambridge is worth more than a first from elsewhere.

If hes getting good grades, I'd encourage him to stay. He probably doesn't have the life oersoectuce to understand just how internationally recognised and what an asset a Cambridge degree will be.

If he's utterly miserable and struggling, that's different.

My three children all refused to apply for Oxbridge as they said they just didn’t want to be in that environment. They all went to Russell Group universities for undergrad and Imperial/Manchester for masters.
But. I asked them every single year if they were happy and wanted to continue with the course they were on as there is nothing worse than studying on the wrong course. I did law, hated it and was never once asked if I was happy. So refused to train as a lawyer after my degree and was never really forgiven. If the OP’s son is still unhappy at the end of first year then it’s important for him to know that he has options and it’s ok to change plans if he wants.

@Lassi I agree that students who are working and also attending class are often working very hard. However, the whole sector has seen a huge drop in attendance in person since the pandemic. At Oxbridge, you have to turn up to tutorials and hand in a large number of essays or assignments per term. At our RG university, students can miss large chunks, indeed the whole module and are not penalised unless there is something in the course to state attendance will be monitored and there are so many exceptions to why they cannot be monitored, this is often too difficult to do in practice, so few do it. Some of my students are not working hard enough at all. They hand in a mediocre essay at the end of it which might have taken two or three days to produce in a whole term. It annoys me a lot, especially as they then write they want more contact time with lecturers. Some are great though, but they have become the minority, probably 1/3 are good attenders if that.

I don't think what Cambridge and Oxford expects of its students is what many other universities expect, and our university is very reluctant to enforce this on students, for a multitude of reasons.

There probably aren't any Oxbridge students not working hard in term time whereas my students vary enormously and some aren't doing very much at all.

That’s not great @WayOutOfLine and I wonder if there should be some way of enforcing attendance? I am aware a lot of students are prioritising jobs over their studies which I can only imagine is due to the pressures they are under. I did some voluntary work with a charity alongside a student at our local university and do admit to be being surprised how little she was actually in university. It is not nearly as much as my DC who is at another RG university. I think a lot of young people are under huge financial stress and it makes the achievements of those students who do very well and who work at the same time even more impressive.

@WayOutOfLine i have two dcs at two different RG uni and they report exactly the same.
Both say teachers are desperate at attendance level. It’s not unusual for dc2 to be in a class on 6 (between 60 and 100 students expected). Dc1 seem to have similar level of attendance (and they do very different courses. One in engineering that has higher contact hours and the economics with much lower contact hours)

The result is much lower grades. Dc1 says tte Uni has never seen grades as low as that and isn’t sure how to address it.

I suspect the fact all courses are now recorded means students don’t feel they have to attend lessons. And then they never watch the recording….

Maybe there is something else at play…

This.

id say that if someone is miserable and succeeding, they still shouldn’t stay in that course.
Working hard, finding it hard and somehow succeeding, even if not as well as you thought, in a subject you enjoy is one thing. But if you don’t, it’s a nightmare
(talking from experience here)

@Lassi I wish I could share your generous interpretation of why they aren't turning up, but my students are mostly pretty advantaged and wealthy so it isn't that! I'm sure some have jobs but they do indeed have time to go to the gym, go on holidays (some honestly email to say they have to ski/go on hols and can't attend!) and so on. Some are less advantaged, but those students in the main are usually quite good attenders. I should say they are not all like this- I have a good solid group of good attenders and keen students, but I think all of them should have to attend at least 2/3rds of the time. Otherwise it's not fair on those who do go to seminars, as they have fewer people and less of a community around them. It's also quite demotivating for staff; I enjoy my teaching and I'd enjoy it even more if the students attended.

Our university does not want to make attendance mandatory though, I think it's the consumer choice model of education, and they don't want to upset their consumers. Oxbridge does not seem to have this so much.

I think it's the consumer choice model of education, and they don't want to upset their consumers.

Hopefully all these unis will have the bottle to 'upset their consumers' when it comes to grades of they're not putting the work in.

I know for a fact last year, the Uni had to lower the pass mark boundary for one exam as so few of them managed to pass.
The paper wasn’t harder than usual (and according to dc pretty basic even with just A level knowledge)

I'm an Oxford graduate. I'm an Oxford MA.

Why? Because at Oxford and Cambridge you automatically get an MA 4 years after graduating.

We had to submit 3 x 2000 word essays every fortnight. In other universities, students only had to submit 1 x 2000 word essay once per half term.

At Oxford and Cambridge you get very rigorous and focussed tutoring.

It's far more intense and harder than other universities. Standards are higher.

But it's great on your CV. And your son is getting an MA, not just a BA or BSc.

So if he can persevere, he will reap the benefits.

DD chose Cambridge as the teaching style suited her. She hated lockdown learning with no opportunity to speak or take part. One to one Supervisions work so well for her, but some of her cohort just didn’t realise the close contact and it isn’t suited to all.

She has met most of her friends through clubs. She is doing English so not the most intense but some find it tough, others like her find it fine. She has just had to submit 3 essays in 3 weeks and found it a breeze compared to A levels doing three essay subjects and sometimes 2 or 3 in the same week. It all seems relative. She coached one student to realise it was the fear rather than the application that was the issue.

one of her cohort (so 1 out of 7 in on her course in her college) is transferring to a different course so maybe that is another thing to consider?

DD has friends at what would be considered more intense and full subjects at Cambridge (Law, Medicine) finding it ok, and then those at other unis finding it tough. It is a very personal experience to the individual and not just about the University.

You make some good points @PettsWoodParadise and everyone’s experience is individual.

Once DD had found her feet at Oxford, she says her STEM subject was less demanding time wise than juggling four A Levels and an EPQ, driving lessons, a long commute to school, music and ballet out of school and a weekend job. At Oxford, everything was to hand and even meals were taken care of if required.

I assume you mean you read Law at Oxford or Cambridge and hated it? Do you think your hatred of it had any bearing on your DCs' impression of what the environment would be like or did they form their opinion independently? If so, how?

There’s no excuse for that @WayOutOfLine and no wonder you feel so frustrated. In all honesty they deserve to fail. I know a few young people who have messed up their degrees by not attending and failing the year. They’ve tried to catch up but the damage was done. I wonder if covid has a part to play in it?

Hi op,

i am sorry it is tough for him. It is such a big change! And far from his friends…from you.

first, I think he knew he chose “hard” when he chose Cambridge so why is it that now it is “too hard”? Is it because his friends say they do “less”? I would say, be careful, people don’t always share it all…his friends are in good Uni too, I wouldn’t be surprised that at some other point, they have to do “more than him”. Also, Cambridge, more opp so they are friends and competition.

Why did he choose Cambridge? Was it the course? The prestige? The town? These matters because when it is hard, at least he knows why he is there…

if he feels low because his peers are now somehow doing better than him…I would actually encourage him to push forward. You don’t want him to quit because others are doing better than him… he might not like the feeling but he should go through it. He will find how to make it work, have him talk to a teacher…

good luck 🌺

My DH did law at Oxford in the 90s. He did not bother attending any lectures, there was no note made of who went and he was lazy. There were no recordings or notes provided, he just missed them. He did attend all his small group tutorials though and read all the case law. His tutor was head of the law department so he received a top notch education despite his laziness. So I think the only difference between Oxbridge and other universities is the personal relationship with your tutor means you can’t just miss these sessions and get away with it. Even they cannot make students attend lectures.

I’m an oxbridge graduate and I also had no idea how hard it would be, I genuinely thought it was hard to get in but would just be like normal uni. Couldn’t have been more wrong!! It’s a real shock to go from breezing through school to genuinely failing mock exams. I don’t have much advice but it is worth it in the end, and everyone is feeling exactly the same. Working through every holiday meant that I could catch up on what I didn’t understand in term time but it’s a rough few years!