My son not thriving at Cambridge

[Masalamother]

My son is 1st year at Cambridge and got all A stars at A levels. He was so pleased to get offer but reality is different. His school friends at other universities doing same course (Durham and Nottingham) have much less work and more fun time. He says they are getting firsts in assessments but he is only getting a 2.1 - even though he topped them easily at school. His course is harder - 2 essays a week whereas they do one a fortnight. He was always told to apply for the best university but now thinks he should have gone to a lesser one as degree class is what counts. I don’t know what to say to him. He probably should have had a year out because he seems very burnt out and disillusioned… All degrees are not the same - he/we never realised that! The advice of his teachers to “be aspirational” was simplistic

Agree first year grades aren't final grades often. Anyway a 2:1 is good, whatever he says.

DBro felt the same, did quite badly in his first year exams because he basically wasn’t able to work at that intensity for 8 weeks solid (he has ADHD, and is more of a short bursts of hard work person). Switched to Imperial for his second year and was so much happier (and did much better).

It sounds like he's got - FOMO - that he sees his friends having a good time elsewhere and maybe feels he's missing out on the social aspect.
Is he a member of clubs or societies? If not, he needs to join in somewhere
How does he know the essay results of his friends at others Unis? A bit of a strange thing to talk about ( are they trying to one-up him?)
Sounds like he is doing really well academically- but just needs a bit more fun and he'll have to be proactive in finding that himself

It's not realistic for everyone to get a First - that suggests lax marking.
Clearly a 2:1 from Cambridge will carry more weight than a First from somewhere else.
And I went to university 40 years ago - everyone knew, even then, that Oxbridge is much harder. That's why their degrees are more prestigious.

My first thought was that if he's getting 2:1s in his first year at cambridge he's doing pretty well!

Everyone saying Oxbridge will open doors etc - I thought employers were moving to blind recruitment?
I know a banker and asked him about recruiting (my DD did not get an offer from C though it was for an unrelated course and it's not her area of interest). He said they recruit blind and they have to do it from a broader spectrum- so Oxbridge graduates will not dominate the interviews (this done through initial filtering). And that a year (or any) placement in industry is very desirable.
If he's really miserable he certainly won't be the first to move to another university, and likely one if very high calibre so he will still get a great education.

When my dd got an offer from Cambridge (for engineering), she put much thought into whether to accept it or to go with her other favourite. She knew full well that she'd be 'middling' at Cambridge and almost certainly get a 2:1 there vs a First elsewhere (the other good unis were awarding a higher proportion of firsts for this subject than Cambridge does!).
She decided to go, for a variety of reasons including that it would be a challenge and she'd learn more. (She'd looked at the course contents and also the assessment systems of the alternatives). Fast forward, she's got a 2:1 and a job she loves.

The primary purpose of going to university surely isn't just to get a bit of paper with a number on it - it's to learn and develop. If the degree work amounts to less than 'a full time job' they're being shortchanged - what foolishness is it to pay the same tuition fees for a part time course?

They should still have time for some fun at Cambridge, even those on the high contact hours subjects do. Perhaps it requires a bit more organization and self discipline but those are also very useful skills to develop.

I think your son's friends at other universities aren't helping ... A 2.1 from cam is 'worth' a first from most other universities and recruiters know that. Oxbridge grads are so sought after and also perform significantly better at Cv blind recruitment processes - possibly because of the supervision system. A 2.1 from cam would open a lot of doors and set him up for life.

FWIW I got a first after only getting average essay marks in the first year, so it is all to play for. I sort of wish I had got a more average degree and enjoyed the experience more though - it wouldn't have made a difference to my (v good) career.

Given the time of year he is probably v stressed about exams and trying to manage your expectations. My parents didn't really understand that a first is not an 'A' equivalent and that was hard to explain - it's such a different thing.

He could think about changing courses and should speak to his college. They do a lot to avoid dropping out- their selection is tough because they are so committed to keeping and nurturing the students they take on.

Also I struggled to find my people at cam - he needs a good group of friends and then it is all a lot better!!

Good luck and please remember how well he has done to be there!

It will be harder than other universities. I did a PhD and went to a "good" university for undergraduate but not oxbridge, in my experience having an oxbridge degree does hold more credit and opens doors whether rightly or wrongly. I got a 1st but felt like it was worth about the same or even less than a 2:1 from oxbridge!
I reckon have a good rest over the summer and really consider his next move. I think if he can stick it out and aim for a 2:1 it's really going to be worth his while to stay at Cambridge

A 2:1 from Cambridge will open more doors than a 1st from Nottingham. Surely you/him know that?

My DS was told at open day that it would be two essays a week. That was one of the reasons he didn't apply in the end. Surely your DS knew what to expect? It's a rigorous process

Is the problem that it’s harder, or that he is no longer top of the class?

This thread is a classic case of how intelligence doesn't equate to common sense!

It's actually better the earlier he learns that he can't just breeze through things and always sit at the top - it's preparing him better for the working world. It's probably also going to make him more empathetic and pleasant. It sounds from your post that it isn't "not thriving," it's "not winning."

You get out what you put in and he is coming out with a degree from a top university in the world. He has no good reasons for dropping out and he can socialise in the summer until his hearts content.

If you support him in feeling like this, please push the idea that he stop comparing himself to other people (people doing better or people having more fun).

DH went to Cambridge for his UG degree and PhD he said everyone is so amazing that no one is special anymore. He got a first, the pressure does get to some though. He was in his college rowing team for a year and spent quite a bit of time drunk as far as I can make out and ran the colleges cocktail bar. Of all the friends of his I have met who attended I would class DH and one of his friends as head and shoulders above the rest. They remained in academia, it’s just totally natural for them. So they are not mega earners like the two that work in investment banking.

I'd say he needs to concentrate on making new friends at Cambridge and not what people are doing elsewhere- who of course may not be entirely honest.

While it's hard no longer being the top student, DH loved finally being part of a large group of people as studious as he was.

I think many Students struggle in their first year.My own DS did Physics at a RG uni ,and found it quite hard going. He has to work hard as well as being bright! I am surprised his friends are getting such an easy ride TBH. I would encourage him to stay on .Cambridge will open many doors for him .He has a few years left at Uni ,but a lifetime to recoup the benefits!

An upper second from Cambridge is as good as a first from anywhere else. He will get better work experience opportunities from Cambridge.

I think some people are being a bit unfair on the OP and her DS - it's not intuitively obvious that all degrees are not equivalent, that there's really no external standardisation between them. There's some pushback against unjustified grade inflation at some but I'm not sure there's any body that can enforce standards.

For some more vocational courses there will be accreditation which will impose some requirements on content etc, but that's a floor not a ceiling - unis who can attract more capable students can stretch them. Which is a good thing.

I would gently encourage him to look at transferring to another Uni like Durham.

Youre not the only one who didn’t realise how much more pressure is put on students at Cambridge (and Oxford).
And he is right that grades count. And graduates from Unis like Durham are as sought after.

I went to Cambridge 25 years ago and felt the same in my first term. That we were doing so much work compared to my former school friends in other unis. You eventually mature and realise that it is a real privilege to go to a university like Cambridge and you get loads of attention from professors and so many great talks/extra curricular opportunities etc etc. But you also realise that you have to make a choice on how much you are willing to work. There are so many bright students there and some are happy to spend all the time working. So if you want more of a balance, then you have to just make that choice. Life is not always just about getting a 1st. You can never aim to be the top of the top in a very elite place.
Those students coming from the top private schools and top grammar schools and top sixth form colleges already know this because they were already surrounded by other very very bright high achievers. You cannot be a perfectionist at a place like Cambridge, there is always going to be someone better or more hardworking than you. And if I am honest, I spent the terms doing the essays and making the most of the place and I would spend some of the holidays catching up on work/working ahead, working for money and travelling. You get a lot of holidays at Oxford and Cambridge so need to work out what will be the right balance for you.

Even with blind recruitment you are still getting a top notch education there. So I can tell you that your processing speeds becomes so fast inevitably that the psychometric tests so many employers now throw at you and the interviews are far easier after Oxbridge. Because you essentially have to interview/argue your case weekly in a tutorial.

My ds left one uni in the first few weeks and the started again after a year pottering about, working in fast food place, growing up. Then he started again in a different uni and was happier and ready.

Every one is unique. The combination of your ds and that uni is unique.

The difficulty is that you don't know if he might regret leaving? I would try to get him to use sone of the support systems that Cambridge will undoubtedly have and give himself time to think about the pros and cons of staying/going.

The grass can seem greener but then the reality might be disappointing

OP, I went to Cambridge and it is a common reaction when people are used to being the best in their class and it is no longer the case, because everyone else is also "the best".

Of course, he will have more work than Durham or Nottingham. It's Cambridge.

1st year results don't matter so much, only for internships, and 2.1 is a very good result indeed and something to be proud of (I slid into 2.2 into my second year and had to work very hard to get back to 2.1 in my 3rd--was very proud).

The world will be his oyster when it comes to jobs. Tell him to stick with it.

Others have said it better, but that first year is really for realising that you're no longer the top of the top, but the mid/lower end of the very top, and coming to terms with that. I often say "I could have gone elsewhere and got a 1st" but in all honesty the teaching standard and expectation of critical thinking is so much higher at C. After the shock of first year, it becomes enjoyable.
Definitely finding your tribe is something which comes with time too.
What a pp said about her DH hiding where he went really resonates with me, I am selective with who I tell, but it did open one door for me leading to a great job, so it's not all bad!

There is much to unpack in your initial post, OP.

If DS didn’t know so much about his friends’ workload and interim results, would he still be unhappy? Is he genuinely unsuited to the workload, which does happen and can be dealt with? Or is he having a hard time with the comparisons to Durham and Nottingham and perhaps with now being a more average member of his cohort?

The latter is experienced by a large number of Y1 Oxbridge students. Some are actually struggling academically. Possibly your DS is amongst them - possibly he could learn to ‘work smarter’. A chat with his Personal Tutor or someone else might be very helpful. All academics are used to this and want to help; several recent threads have featured contributions from Oxbridge academics about the many resources they can point student to.

As an academic and former admissions tutor I agree that a 2.1 from Oxbridge is worth more than a First from most places, including the universities named in your OP. Even with blind recruiting, Oxbridge candidates do disproportionately well and it’s down to both their inherent abilities and, more importantly IMO, their training.

However genuinely thriving at university is important. No place, and this includes Oxbridge, is right for all who are admitted. You and DS need to figure out whether he is having a wobble because of ego and/or external factors, or whether he is genuinely unsuited to the working rhythms of the place.

I wouldn’t turn my back on this opportunity lightly but if there is a genuine misfit I wouldn’t hesitate to transfer. DS will have loads of options!

The social and recreational side is also very important. I have saved it for last because of the possibility that DS is overly involved with his school friends and hasn’t given Cambridge life a fair chance yet. If that is true, and I hope I am wrong, it is surely contributing to his unhappiness. It takes a while to find your tribe!

Best wishes to DS

This is terrible advice!

Maybe as a last resort if he is genuinely struggling and miserable. But it sounds like he’s just having the uncomfortable (but understandable) realisation that (a) he is not top dog academically among so many high achievers and (b) his friends at less prestigious unis are having an easier ride.

There’s no guarantee that moving to Durham or wherever would get him a better degree result and yes Durham graduates are sought after too but Cambridge is undoubtedly more prestigious. He’s only in 1st year - the whole thing is a massive step up from A levels and he’s probably only getting into the swing of it.

Hopefully he will be able to see the whole thing for the exciting intellectual challenge and amazing opportunity that it is. If he got an offer he deserves to be there.