My son not thriving at Cambridge

[Masalamother]

My son is 1st year at Cambridge and got all A stars at A levels. He was so pleased to get offer but reality is different. His school friends at other universities doing same course (Durham and Nottingham) have much less work and more fun time. He says they are getting firsts in assessments but he is only getting a 2.1 - even though he topped them easily at school. His course is harder - 2 essays a week whereas they do one a fortnight. He was always told to apply for the best university but now thinks he should have gone to a lesser one as degree class is what counts. I don’t know what to say to him. He probably should have had a year out because he seems very burnt out and disillusioned… All degrees are not the same - he/we never realised that! The advice of his teachers to “be aspirational” was simplistic

My DS applied for HSPS and didn't get in. Even the interview was ferocious!

I think I know a little of how your DS feels- mine ended up doing a similar course at another uni and dropped it for history 3 weeks in, having realised it was less intensive and scattergun and that he should have realised how much he enjoyed history at A Level, too..

There is a YouTuber who filmed his Cambridge experience doing HSPS and I think part of the problem (he said) was that it seemed like the workload of 3 discrete - and not very organised- subjects and he felt HSPS folk were worked harder than even other subjects.

This may be a part of the problem. It seemed to get better in subsequent years (although I think in the end the guy changed his degree slightly but it's ages since I watched him)

I think your DS might need to speak to his supervisor about his feelings and concerns?

Haven't RTFT but DD is at Durham and they all seem to be working ridiculously hard. DS is at another well-regarded university and there is no comparison. DD is also thinking that she should have picked an easier option.

@IvyIvyIvy your post implies bath is similar to an ex poly. They are as different as Oxford and bath are.

He should bear in mind that Part II HSPS is quite different to Part I which is designed to intro you to all the topclics areas. For pt II, he can choose his papers and can focus then on the things he loves.. there's a lot of history in the options as some papers are shared between History and HSPS.
I did HSPS and honestly it's a cracking course. I agree also on the Cambridge friends point, HSPS can be a bit lonely as there's only v small numbers of people doing it in any individual collège. So the leaning into either college or uni activities is absolutely critical.

If it's any help, my eldest is in her 2nd year studying English, not Oxbridge, and also got a little frustrated at the marking of her essays in first year - it was made very clear that getting into the range for firsts was going to be exceptional. She's gradually increased her marks over time and is strongly targetting a 1st nevertheless now. I think this can be common for essay subjects in universities with a generally strong cohort.

A 2:1 from Oxbridge is worth more than a First at any other UK university.

Not necessarily.

like I said my field we recruit from one or two non-oxbridge uni’s over oxbridge. A 2:1
from one of them is more favourable than the similar course at Oxford.

it depends on the course as well as the uni.

Having spent many years recruiting into investment banks, I can tell you that wasn't the case in the teams I worked in: due to the technical nature of the roles we wanted to see a 1st from a very good uni and a masters or preferably a PhD. A 2:1 from Cambridge would probably not have got an interview. Once they got as far as interview, it was almost entirely about what they could do with the questions they were asked - an oxbridge background did not impress. Some of the oxbridge candidates were, putting it politely, very ordinary, and struggled with questions pitched just above A level. They had mostly been to expensive / well-known schools, and would not have made it to oxbridge from a comprehensive. I can remember hiring excellent people from Durham, Warwick, Edinburgh, and also a lot from outside the UK who'd studied in institutions in Italy, Germany, France that I'd never heard of and had to look up.

That was also the consensus in some of the places I worked as well : oxford was regarded as being in third place, below Imperial.

Were you recruiting candidates who had studied STEM subjects though?

OP’s son is studying an arts subject - he is never going to be applying for a job where his actual degree subject matters, and the uni will carry weight; even if not at the graduate recruitment stage, it will do later. I’m a lawyer and people are still
impressed by my Cambridge (English) degree 15 years after I graduated and with 12 years of legal experience.

People love to shit on Oxbridge because they have some kind of chip on their shoulder about it.

A 2:1 from Cambridge would probably not have got an interview. Once they got as far as interview, it was almost entirely about what they could do with the questions they were asked - an oxbridge background did not impress. Some of the oxbridge candidates were, putting it politely, very ordinary, and struggled with questions pitched just above A level. They had mostly been to expensive / well-known schools, and would not have made it to oxbridge from a comprehensive.

So if you didn’t interview Cambridge 2.1s then who are these “very ordinary” Cambridge candidates - the ones with Cambridge 1sts? I call BS.

People love to shit on Oxbridge because they have some kind of chip on their shoulder about it.

Absolutely! I can only imagine that these people attended lesser universities.

My dc at Durham doing a science subject and thought similar in first year tbh. Said friends doing same course elsewhere seemed to have more free time with less intense courses and were getting higher grades. Said they weren’t going back after Easter
May or may not have been true.. it’s easy to be swayed by what they see on other people’s social media. Also some don’t like to admit they find it hard or will inflate their grades.
I think it just took a while to settle and make friends because they were so busy with work. Once they made good friends and got into the rhythm of the work, they seemed ok

My advice is that he needs to talk to his tutors about how he feels

He needs to communicate with them and not hide away and think they'll think he's not cut out for it

He deserves his place

He has to talk to them and get the support abd push he needs

Communication is the key here to the uni

Sadly most graduate jobs are inundated with applications, and are filtered on degree grade before anyone looks at which uni, ad that's not even counting the rise if university-blind admissions

Clearly a 2:1 from Cambridge will carry more weight than a First from somewhere else.

Absolutely deluded if you really think this!

I always feel like they have loads of fun at Oxbridge with the college bars and fancy formal dinners that the course work is just a thing on the side of all that

He sounds lonely maybe which in turn is sending him more to his room to study and spin his head around

I'd be in my college bar taking my mind off it all to recharge my soul and see how everyone else is getting on before cracking on

He's near the end of the year so he can recover his mind body and soul

If he’s really not happy then he could try to switch to another Uni doing the same course.
I know of people who have done this and we’re able to join the second year as well

I agree.
It often depends on the Industry but as an architect we wouldn’t prioritise Cambridge over other Unis. Simply because of the course type.

Unfortunately I'm not surprised. Oxbridge is hell on earth unless you're a very specific kind of ultra-dedicated, ultra-focussed, ultra-academic devotee of your subject. It very much caters to one kind of personality and brain.

Do be aware that Oxbridge can, if it's not right for you, initiate or worsen mental health problems, so be aware of this and ready to help.

The one thing I wish someone had told me: "It is ok to leave and go elsewhere, you're not a failure."

By all accounts he's taking one of the most challenging courses available at Cambridge, on top of dealing with the increased pressure that place brings. I hope he finds his way through OP, by talking to tutors or swapping to History, etc.

As a side question : Why has this thread been turned into a very dull pissing contest about who went where and which university is "better"? I don't see how that helps anyone, its also purile.

@Masalamother degree class not the only thing that counts. a 2:1 from oxbridge is often judged as equivalent to a first from other unis. no judgment from me (I didn't go to oxbridge), its just a fact

it will get easier as he finds strategies to cope with the higher workload but his learning and what he gets out of his degree will be worth it.

This thread is completely mad. The way that the OP’s DS has been described (immature etc) is just awful. As for the value of degrees at respective universities, it’s really not so black and white as some people believe it to be. A candidate with a first in chemistry from Imperial or a first from LSE in Economics or maths from Warwick who went to a state school is highly impressive. Compare that with a 2.1 from Oxbridge from a candidate from a background with every educational advantage. Anyone working in the law or other competitive fields knows that people with Oxbridge degrees can vary wildly in terms of their career success, ranging from incredible to bang average and even complete disaster.
OP, show your DS that an important life skill is to make choices which are right for him and to have the courage to follow his own path rather than do what is expected of him. Then he will find his success.

I have a ds at Oxford who went through a similarly tough first year.

The pace at Oxbridge is brutal and a real adjustment! I thought ds1 would leave in his first year and I did ask if that’s what he wanted. His mental health suffered and he saw a university counsellor.

He rode it out though and he’s now coming to the end of his 3rd year of a 4 year Masters degree.

It is really tough, only your ds can really know if it’s what he wants.

For those of you saying that an Oxbridge degree out classes any other, this is something that is rapidly changing.

I hire for a graduate programme, we are no longer given the information on the university that people attended. I am given their expected grade and people who get through the CV stage then get invited to a group assessment day were we can see them in action (I often have to ask some of the brightest to leave during the day for being too aggressive and shouting at other participants)

We go in university blind to get rid of the Oxbridge bias. I have lots of peers in other graduate programs and they do similar things.

Life is more intense at Cambridge but the terms are (or used to be) shorter and the Tripos system means you avoid the large number of “final” exams. Every year (or certainly the last 2) count which is an added pressure.

I am not sure what is to be gained by comparing himself to others at different universities; they’re obviously going to be very different in approach.

Do you think he might be struggling with no longer being the brightest? I mean that in a kind way. If he was the “clever one” in his school it might be an adjustment to be surrounded by others of equal ability.