My son not thriving at Cambridge

[Masalamother]

My son is 1st year at Cambridge and got all A stars at A levels. He was so pleased to get offer but reality is different. His school friends at other universities doing same course (Durham and Nottingham) have much less work and more fun time. He says they are getting firsts in assessments but he is only getting a 2.1 - even though he topped them easily at school. His course is harder - 2 essays a week whereas they do one a fortnight. He was always told to apply for the best university but now thinks he should have gone to a lesser one as degree class is what counts. I don’t know what to say to him. He probably should have had a year out because he seems very burnt out and disillusioned… All degrees are not the same - he/we never realised that! The advice of his teachers to “be aspirational” was simplistic

I think a 2.1 or a First won't make any difference in terms of jobs unless want to be an academic in a subject that needs a First. Infact where I worked they took 2:1s over Firsts having found Firsts too academic and not commercial enough if everything else equal. Hard work will be highly valued by a lot of employers. He should still be able to socialise, there are plenty of parties there.

I was 3 essays a week for 8 weeks times 3 but plenty of parties, you don't need to read all of the books, just get the key points of them.

My DS1 struggled in his first year at Oxford. He found it difficult to make friends and concepts like tutors drinks parties filled him with dread. There was a compulsory maths element in the first year that was a big step up from A level to cope with too. In his second year he was living in a student house, had found his tribe and got used to it all. The 8 week terms enabled us to do lots as a family in the holidays and for him to keep his holiday job in a supermarket rolling on.
He was very happy at Oxford in the second and third years but the settling in was really difficult.
He got a 2.1 after a lot of hard work. He did a masters degree at a European University and won a prize for best student of that intake, despite much of the course being in another Language.
He joined the Civil Service via the Fast Track where recruitment is blind as to where you got your degree, not many people who were not at Oxbridge were successful which shows how good the degrees are at 2.1 level.
Having gone through this situation I would say encouragement to continue is a good idea - show him this thread. If he really does want to move then it won’t be disasterous, a friend of my younger son is now an academic at a Scottish University and pursued the route of getting a first from a university not much respected plus a masters from somewhere better.

He doesn't need to " drop out". He can EASILY transfer to another university!

Sorry @Masalamother only read about half the thread, but would like to chime in to agree with many - the experience of being the best at your school and then at uni being very middling is salutary.

I didn't go to Cambridge but I went to Bristol in the 1980s and it was tough to get in (I mean it still is). I was easily the best at my subject, in fact lots of my subjects, at my grammar school; but at uni wow was I low down the order. There were a lot of well off people and also a lot of people who were very smart.

I vividly recall a chat in a seminar about what people had done in the summer - they had been to Germany, spent time as interns in some fancy government role and the like - meanwhile I had spent 10 weeks packing bulbs at a factory. And I couldn't even recall the German word for bulbs!

I recall this now and how I cringed, but in fact I am pretty proud of myself that I supported myself with my non-glamourous summer job. And as I say, the lesson that I wasn't the smartest was salutary and one I will never forget, even many many years later. I think you can always spot if someone smart has never learned that lesson.

So that might be healthy for your DS. And bearing it in mind might give him the impetus to stay and do what (after all) he was presumably very keen to do whe he applied.

But equally, as others say, he could restart somewhere else and there is no shame in that. But make sure he does so with his eyes open.

He's 18/19, give him a break

I think uni can be a shock. It’s a different way of working.

it’s not just “learning”. It’s assessing, thinking, looking for flaws. Thinking how you can expand on what you’re being taught.

i actually think a’levels are not a great launch to uni. I tanked my a’levels, I didn’t enjoy it and was not motivated. I got to uni and it was like a light switch and everything made sense. It was very hard work and we had critical reviews and presentations every week, but I liked that you had that 8 week burst focussing on one thing, before moving on to the next.

some of the kids who got top a’levels dropped out before the first term. They couldn’t handle the workload and the whole lectures/tutorials instead of a classroom timetable and directed learning.

in my field there are non oxbridge uni’s that are preferable to employ graduates from. Oxbridge would not necessarily open doors, unless you’d worked with a certain professor or lab.

as a pp said if he can get to the end of this year, have the summer, and think about transferring. It’s only another two years though.

Thank you all for your replies. Some very helpful insights have been made and I am grateful.

I think my son has not made deep enough friendships at Cambridge - partly because he is always working to keep up - so relies too heavily on friends at other universities and naturally compares his experience to theirs.

I assure you there is no pressure from me for my son to get a 1st!

His course is HSPS - which is a new subject for him. He thinks he might have preferred History (which he loved at A-level).

He has not spoken to his DoS or anybody on well/being team so I shall ask him to do that. Thank you for that suggestion. Also, it is exam season in Cambridge so life is tense but hopefully he can relax over the summer (although he is going inter-railing with the friends at Durham and Nottingham so I do hope they do not constantly compare courses!)

@Masalamother : great to hear your update

Agree with PPs that it can be hard to settle in etc

I have the slightly odd experience of going on to another undergrad degree (University of London) after Oxford & my masters - I got a first and NO ONE has ever mentioned it . I also thought the degree was a joke after what I was used to : the demands of my Oxford degree have helped me a lot in my career and it has opened doors

To those who mention ‘blind’ recruitment: not everywhere & not later in your career

I think encouraging your son to spend more time establishing a friendship group at Cambridge is key - I find it unusual that he is travelling with his schoolmates tbh as I was doing that sort of thing with newer friends. It is a privilege to study at Oxford or Cambridge and plenty wish they could do it would be a shame to give up on it

I'm not sure about Cambridge, but Oxford I believe let you take a year out mid course if you're struggling... so maybe something to consider if he wants a bit of a break to travel etc before coming back to it.

I'd be pushing to get him to stay. A degree from Cambridge will really help his job prospects – and there's no need to get a 1st unless he wants to go into academia

It’s sounds like it’s a combo of the course and not finding his tribe.

i had a similar experienceat not oxbridge and decided to “stick it out” which was a bit of a mess for me personally. It was the first time I ever felt lonely and was a very difficult period. Things improved when I got into the world of work.

I’d be guided by him, but seriously research / look at options to restart at a diff uni if he doesn’t feel more enthusiastic after chatting with DoS.

he sounds bright and he’ll have loads of options either way.

To echo many other PP, a 2.1 from Oxbridge is an excellent degree and, by most measures, harder earned than a 1st from most other universities. He'll be doing five / ten times the amount of work - it's supposed to be difficult! That said, I know two or three people who transferred from Oxbridge to other unis (or left university altogether) during the first year and were very happy - it was right for them.
Is he able to grow a friendship circle from his interests? My interests were parties and nightclubs (!) but there's a society for everything. I found that the friends made during the first year were the friends I stayed with (and am still friends with).

I absolutely loathed my first year at Uni. I now realize it’s not an uncommon feeling at all. However, things changed in my second year, I had a better understanding of how to study, I made friends, and I really started thriving.

Many years later I went back to Uni for another undergraduate course in a totally different subject and guess what - I hated the first year again!!!

The pressure can be very high - speak to your son and make sure he always knows he has a way out for him. He can defer a year, he could drop out and go to a different university - make sure he knows he has your support. It's really important he doesn't feel trapped, it can be a real struggle for people who are used to being high achieving suddenly struggling.

Career wise it is worth it, it's definitely more about the university than the grade, people know it's a harder course. But that said he could do well with a degree from another university too! It's just easier with an Oxbridge degree.

His course is HSPS - which is a new subject for him. He thinks he might have preferred History (which he loved at A-level).

He has not spoken to his DoS or anybody on well/being team so I shall ask him to do that.

Definitely. He may be able to explore whether he can/should switch to history. Cambridge seems generally to be quite accommodating to students who want to change, which may or may not entail starting from yr 1 (one of DDs friends changed from maths to MFL so obviously no course overlap!) .

This is a really interesting possibility, OP. With all those A stars, if DS finishes the year on a 2.1 he will clearly be of Cambridge standard for any subject he has the background for. I hope they would be supportive. It is definitely worth exploring.

Because DS is so focussed on comparing his progress with his friends’, if required to start a new subject in Y1 he would need to come to the realisation that with an incredible second chance to get this right he needs to concentrate on his own long term interests. Could he do that? (No need to discuss publicly)

I still think a 2:1 from Cambridge looks better than a 1st from most other places, especially with traditional recruiters such as magic circle law firms.

I rarely spent time with university friends in the holidays, we lived far apart and none of us had the money to travel. I did spend lots of time with my old school gang and am now married to one of them and still in touch with lots of the others. If he has deep friendships from school they are worth keeping up alongside making new ones. Perhaps he will be living with more like minded students in y2.

2:1 at Cambridge is excellent of course. I found the first year at a RG university a challenge, I didn't know anyone at all and felt homesick, it's quite a difference moving away from home and having to build a new friendship network etc.
Sounds like investigating History would be a good idea.

If he’s not enjoying it then change something. I couldnt understand why anyone wouldn’t take a gap year (if they can afford it) because going straight from all the work of A levels to Uni seemed crazy to me. I got a job then went travelling. Then I was ready to go back to studying. And I didn’t apply for Oxbridge for some of the reasons your son is experiencing. I still went to a red brick uni.

Persuade him to finish the year so he can take that 'credit' elsewhere if he does decide to change (ie they would be more likely to allow him to start in the second year). He may surprise himself and do better than he expected in end of year exams.

Also maybe give it just a bit more time. Uni courses can vary from year to year. Workload is always going to be higher at Oxbridge but you get longer holidays. It's pointless comparing with other universities as they don't use a tutorial system. If the intensive 8 week terms don't suit him it might be worth changing but it really depends on whether that would be an equally regarded degree in terms of job applications etc.

he is going inter-railing with the friends at Durham and Nottingham so I do hope they do not constantly compare courses!

Hopefully not, because apart from maybe winding him up, it could leave some of the others feeling short-changed.

There should be enough overlap between HSPS and History to do a straight swap without resitting a year. I would advise him to look at the course carefully though. I read History joint honours with another subject and was glad that meant there were no compulsory papers. Some of the compulsory papers for both individual subjects didn't interest me at all.

The other thing he might also look at is switching colleges, now he knows the place a bit better and might have a feel for them. It's unusual (much less common than switching courses and even that is rare), but possible. It wouldn't make the workload any different, but it might help him to find a natural home within the university and feel more at ease.

Oxbridge just is harder, and more work, than other universities at undergraduate level, even ones with comparable ratings (clearly I haven't looked at every course in every uni, I'm speaking generally). In return, if you love your subject then you get more of a chance to explore it in depth; you're a step ahead for any further studies; and there's potentially an advantage in the jobs market (obviously depends a lot on the line of work). Personally, and from working with sixth formers applying to university, my opinion is that the biggest advantage of Oxbridge is in the soft skills. I guess it just depends whether that's something your son values enough to make it worth sticking out when he doesn't enjoy it at the moment. He may be happier elsewhere, he may not, it would be something to think very carefully about before making any hasty decisions.

Don't think anyone I know found Cambridge a breeze.
Not all degrees are created equal - in fact this really annoys me as so many grad schemes just ask for a 2.1, you might as well go to a crap uni and get an easy 2.1. Back in the day pre HR equal ops screening, it was accounted for that to get a top degree from Oxbridge or lse or imperial you had to be bloody brilliant, while a 2.1 from your average reading, bath, manchester was a much easier prize- and people were allowed to be snobs about a university. However, if your son does ok, his degree will open many more doors than a 1st from London met.

Dunno , I quite liked the typo . Seemed apt...