How did DD get a third? Anyone who works at uni know?

[greensofas]

Bright DD, AAB at a level (covid results but all essays marked at that level) got her Russell group uni of choice in a topic she had studied at A level. Worked hard at uni, tons of library time and going to lectures/study groups. Has struggled all the way through with ups and downs in results even though she has enjoyed subject. In final year found it all very hard and ended up on antidepressants and therapy. Still worked like a Trojan though (competitive with herself)
Just graduated with a third. I know she is depressed with result and after googling and coming on mumsnet, everyone seems to say 'only the lowest get thirds these days' or 'only the ones that didn't even try'
She doesn't seem to be either of those things. I feel so sad for her. Any advice or words or wisdom?

If she or you really want to know you need to see her transcript which will list all the marks. Most unis put a lot of weight on y3. Check nothing missing or penalised unfairly for lateness. She would have known the likely outcome months ago unless it is heavily exam based (unlikely)

Oh good Lord. Once you've got some real life work experience, only an idiot would look at the degree class over how well you can actually do the job and nobody wants to work for an idiot. Right after uni is an ideal time to travel and if she really has screwed up all her opportunities (she hasn't), then why shouldn't she? What's she got to lose? Why can't that be one of her options? Travel is a great life experience and before you have any ties or a career to lose is an ideal time for it. She can get a working travel visa and earn money as she goes. She's barely into her 20s, the world is her oyster even with a third. Did you know that some people don't go to uni at all?

@mathanxiety Oh dear lord what a pompous and over the top response. Getting a third isn't great but there are still lots of options for the OPs daughter. There is absolutely no reason she should be able to find a decent job and be independent. Her A levels were good so she clearly isn't stupid.

My kids are in their late 20's and early 30's and all of their friends who took alternative routes are employed and independent and that includes a few who have had extra challenges in life.

Well done you for raising your amazing kids. Im sure it was all down to your amazing parenting.

Shouldnt*

This is the higher education topic. The OP has asked for information not to be made to feel even more worried than she was.

Some of my most successful friends mucked around at uni, got crap degrees, and then travelled and had dead end jobs till their mid twenties before pulling their socks up

You can only resit modules you've failed, and even hen your grade is capped. OP's daughter passed everything.

University writing is an entirely different prospect to anything you'll do at school - just getting to grips with the Harvard referencing system is worth a degree on its own sometimes!

The uni libraries always offer sessions for this, some librarians are invited to lectures, and UEL where I'm currently at will review an essay before submission, checking the structure/spelling etc. This is so important because marks are lost easily this way.

Personally, I always did well in English at school. Even so, it's taken me years to really grasp Harvard referencing and being able to evidence my statements accurately (plus different lecturers have different interpretations, and there's more than one referencing system, including multiple Harvard systems 🙄). University literally is another level, hence being called 'higher' education - kids have enough to do at GCSE/A-level, hence these skills only coming into play at level 4 (entry level degree).

Aside from anything else, I do think that the focus right now is ensuring that OP's daughters mental health is supported whilst the initial shock passes. Then she can look at what's next.

It's early days yet! Good luck to your daughter and you OP x

@thing47 See attached from YouGov. Plus once we get near something like the Olympics, views change and return on investment kicks in!

Going back to the DD in question, I’m not sure travelling is the best idea at all. It can be lonely and just putting off any attempt to look at a sustainable future. I think the time would be far better spent looking for an apprenticeship or a direction of travel for a career.

As an aside, DD met a 38 year old recently who had continued to travel. Could not afford anywhere to live, so sofa surfed. Worked in bars mostly then spent earnings on travel. Just nomadic and beginning to regret it. I think grads travel when they already have something lined up with a future start date but travelling with nothing in mind is risky. Why academics applaud this is bizarre.

A lot of decisions young people make these days are based around housing. What you can actually afford and do you want to live with parents because you will never afford anything independently. Cushy home forever - then don’t bother with a career. Not necessary. For self worth it might be. Plus you don’t have 60 years ahead of you that’s full of fun if you are mostly penniless!

@TizerorFizz

”As an aside, DD met a 38 year old recently who had continued to travel. Could not afford anywhere to live, so sofa surfed. Worked in bars mostly then spent earnings on travel. Just nomadic and beginning to regret it. I think grads travel when they already have something lined up with a future start date but travelling with nothing in mind is risky. Why academics applaud this is bizarre.”

Who has suggested OPs daughter travel non stop for 17 years? I don’t remember anyone suggesting that.

My entire life came from travelling and youth hostels are, in my experience, full of young people who are also travelling solo and wanting to find a companion to explore the new places with. Travelling alone can be liberating, it gave me more confidence than a job ever did. It led to me learning several languages fluently, meeting DH, I got a job in one of the countries which basically springboarded my career. It's a bit sad that some people think their only worth is buying a house, working and then ultimately dying without having ever really living.

We have family friends whose DD has spent the past two-three years since finishing her degree (at a Russell Group uni), travelling extensively. Think she's having the time of her life. Definitely not drifting (as she's planning to come back to settle down to a proper job soon) but just living life to the full.

@WibblyWobblyLane Thats your idea of “living”. I can honestly say my DD1 has a completely different view. She finds huge fulfilment from her job. Very excited about something when I saw her yesterday. From being able to enjoy good restaurants and have like minded friends in her world to planning her career and where she would like to live. She also speaks two MFLs courtesy of a degree in MFL and a year abroad as part of her degree.

I only commented on travelling for longer periods (and quite a few do this after a big disappointment and life not panning out as they thought) is that it can be quite difficult to settle down to anything. So I’m not saying the DD in question would do this but for every “I had a wonderful time and found myself” others don’t ultimately find much at all. So take stock and plan a way forward.

I only commented on travelling for longer periods (and quite a few do this after a big disappointment and life not panning out as they thought)

And why not? If life's not gone the way you hoped, why not have an adventure and see what else is out there? Some people do this and meet the love of their lives or settle in another country. Travel is fantastic.

You seem quite set that anything other than
Grammar/private school> top uni > top degree --> straight into work = failure. You'll never see that people have very fulfilling lives not meeting those expectations. Your posts come across as exceptionally pompous. I enjoy my job but I go to work to pay my mortgage and pay for a social life and life experiences. I had your daughter's mindset in my 20s but once I had my own family I realised none of it matters. And there are plenty of people like me in the world that get enjoyment and fulfilment from friends, family, travel. The OP's daughter is not a failure but by pushing young people into boxes and not letting them get out of life what they truly want, we are setting them up for failure.

Some of the people I know who appeared to work hard at uni got poor results— they were cramming and using techniques that might have worked at A Level, without achieving a deep and intuitive understanding of the subject. People who have a superficial understanding typically don't realise that that's what they have.

It’s not for everyone though!!! It’s partially running away. That might pay dividends but it can be just as lonely and lead nowhere. Tales of travel so far seem to involve meeting the love of your life. You might but if you cannot afford to live it’s value is one dimensional.

Of course it's not for everyone. But it's very much for many people.

Why can't you retreat for a bit while you try to find yourself and figure out your next step? You'll be having a fantastic life experience and opening doors while you do. It's about a sense of adventure and that's more valuable to some people than others.

@WibblyWobblyLane Err ? No. I have a DD who has a degree from LCF. Not highly paid at all and recently had a career change. You can infer what you want, but it’s not true and if you read all my posts I have suggested various ways this DD can feel better about what has happened and rebuild her self esteem. I’ve been through all of this (well similar!) with DD2 and finding yourself via travelling is not really great advice if you don’t have any money! This DD has not worked. She’s had some MH issues, as my DD did. It’s far better to sort out health and plan rather than go off on your own. She almost certainly needs her family. There is life after disappointments but sorting out how you go about it is important and parents really can help.

Please tell her this. Unless it's a job where you need learning from your degree, like law, honestly most employers prefer work experience, evidenced skills and generally common sense. Work experience and travelling sounds great idea.

DD1 graduated last year with a 2:2 with JH English and a mfl.
She missed her third year (placement abroad, pretty essential to her degree) due to MH issues.
She missed out on a 2:1 by literally one mark. Pretty amazing when you consider it.

She blew us all away by rearranging a four year degree into a thee year study.
She learnt so much by facing her fears and jumped, effectively, into year four.
Initially we were so disappointed for her but she told us that she's learnt so much about herself during this time that it's worth more to her going forward. She could have appealed her result and waltzed into a graduate job.
But do you know what? She has taken a year out to try her hand at something that is her passion. She got a job at a coffee shop to find herself over the past year and now she's in a better place than she ever was.
So so proud that she's now following her dreams. It wasn't the trajectory she initially predicted but she's in the place she was always meant to be.

There's more to education than grades. It's giving them enough space and time to discover who they want to be.
Congratulations to your DC who has graduated. No one knows what the future holds

There will be a perfectly good reason why an individual like your daughter who is bright enough to gain AAB at A level but then not achieve a 2:1 or first at degree level but you will probably need to find out the answer to this complex issue via a Consultant Clinical Psychiatrist ( and NOT a psychologist, or Mumsnet) - many bright people have undiagnosed working memory process issues which links to ADHD or just straightforward ADD - in almost 400 comments this likely explanation has been missed and is in itself a metaphor for how the symptoms of ADHD and it’s related components are missed by school’s, universities, GPs, families - it takes a highly trained specialist to diagnose it and left undiagnosed can lead to all sorts of issues including depression, equally many individuals have it, lead happy enough lives and are unaffected by it but often it’s the pursuit of higher level academic success that can flag this issue up in young adults, also sadly it’s why some bright young adults opt not to pursue higher education - once diagnosed it can be treated and an individuals true potential can be unleashed - if you are concerned about your daughters mental health and trying to understand why she didn’t achieve what she hoped to, the first step to this is to seek out a highly reputable NHS registered medically trained clinical psychiatrist (and definitely not a psychologist) - the sad reality of this is you will probably need to pay privately to see someone because NHS waiting lists are unfeasibly long.

Some interesting points about students not being able to write articulately. DD was never that good at writing, but my background is copywriting and proof reading so I have helped with constructive suggestions when she has asked me to look over her assignments. I didn't understand most of what was written, but at least it flowed and the spelling and grammar were correct.

She got very little feedback from tutors on her written work though.

Over the years my amendments to her writing reduced significantly, so something has stuck in her memory.

She is excellent at written communication now, and her personal statement for her masters application was excellent and needed no input from me. It landed her an interview straight away. She wasn't successful after interview, but I think that she has dodged a bullet from what I know now.

It's incredibly hard to teach students to write unless they really want to learn. Lecturers are trained to keep comments brief as students rarely take them on and almost none come to get the personal feedback that's generally offered.