How did DD get a third? Anyone who works at uni know?

[greensofas]

Bright DD, AAB at a level (covid results but all essays marked at that level) got her Russell group uni of choice in a topic she had studied at A level. Worked hard at uni, tons of library time and going to lectures/study groups. Has struggled all the way through with ups and downs in results even though she has enjoyed subject. In final year found it all very hard and ended up on antidepressants and therapy. Still worked like a Trojan though (competitive with herself)
Just graduated with a third. I know she is depressed with result and after googling and coming on mumsnet, everyone seems to say 'only the lowest get thirds these days' or 'only the ones that didn't even try'
She doesn't seem to be either of those things. I feel so sad for her. Any advice or words or wisdom?

teaching how to write a good academic essay often seems to be seen as someone else's job, and it falls through the cracks.

Well, frankly, I do expect that school teachers actually teach how to write an essay. I shouldn't have to take them through the basics when they get to me at university after 13 years of school.

I remember we did a whole term on 'expositional' writing in my English class in my 2nd year of secondary school. We read several books of essays by writers such as Chesterton and Thurber, and analysed them paragraph by paragraph. It gave me a fantastic grounding in writing, particularly in thinking about structure, and the flow and logic of an argument.

No, he wouldn't. That's a fundamental misunderstanding of the way professional sportsmen and women think, I'm afraid @TizerorFizz. It may well be how Joe Public thinks, but not the professionals themselves. For them it's all about the process and breaking a 30-year-old record is more newsworthy than winning a World, European or Commonwealth title – it was headline news in all the sports pages of the national press and on the BBC. Sure, an Olympic gold would trump it, but only 1 person wins that every 4 years so no professional athlete competes on the basis that only Olympic gold will do. That just isn't how their mindset works.

Agree with your point about peaking, though. All the pedagogical research in education supports the view that DCs peak at different ages – only something like 2% achieve top grades throughout school and university. There are all sorts of reasons for this, but I feel that's going a little too far off track on this thread.

Sadly it should be. Maybe that’s why we have struggled for decades in some sport. Few remember those who didn’t win gold and, not only that, funding follows success too. Plus the public pays for athletes to be professional and lack of success means less or no funding. I’m really pleased John Regis’s record has been broken but after 30 years of funding and improved training it should have been. Years ago! Usain Bolt was half a second quicker 14 years ago!

Off topic: but the views of the public matter when the public fund something. Degrees are probably no different!

That's an interesting point. In essence I agree with you, but most athlete funding nowadays actually comes via the National Lottery (including all athletes performance awards), so technically yes it is 'publicly funded' in that the funds come from the public. But the implication in your post is that the funding comes direct from taxes which we have no choice about, and that largely isn't the case.

@SideWonder
I remember we did a whole term on 'expositional' writing in my English class in my 2nd year of secondary school. We read several books of essays by writers such as Chesterton and Thurber, and analysed them paragraph by paragraph. It gave me a fantastic grounding in writing, particularly in thinking about structure, and the flow and logic of an argument

Your school sounds very, very different to my kids schools. One of my kids A level courses was taught by a string of supply teachers for over 75% of the two years. Luckily the teaching was so bad that my DC realized that they would have to completely self teach themselves if they wanted a decent grade.

@SideWonder Well, frankly, I do expect that school teachers actually teach how to write an essay. I shouldn't have to take them through the basics when they get to me at university after 13 years of school.

I'm afraid that's not an expectation that will be met in many schools, given the awful situation in teaching at the moment. 😒

Not all A-level courses include essay writing, but you might still end up on a degree course that requires it.

Yes. Those courses often have essay writing skills workshops if students need them. However years of using incorrect grammar, poor use of phrases, sentences, paragraphs and spelling (cutting out made up words!) isn’t easy to put right in a few sessions.

Essay writing at university is different from essay writing at school, though. You could go through A Levels with what your school teachers taught you was a really suitable technique, and get to university and find you have to re-learn it all (especially if your A Levels favoured a different style than your degree, which can easily happen). I think for some people it can be really hard to grasp that what you were taught was good isn't cutting it any more.

This has turned in to a very interesting thread. I am still reading and finding things that I can relate to her situation.

@thing47 The lottery is public money. It’s raised by the public and the public like to see gold medals. I’m afraid it’s that simple.

@greensofas Hopefully DD will see a way forward and leave disappointment behind her. Just think about what she can do and not what’s out of reach just now.

@GoingToBeLessRubbishAtLife
I think the time to travel is before you graduate. Same goes for the time to get some 'work experience'. I would say after you graduate it's time to get a graduate level job, with a good deal of 'work experience' already under your belt to boost your chances of finding employment.

I'd be concerned that this DD has not had work experience up to now. Having a bit of work experience during your teens and during term time at university teaches students to manage time well. It also gives students

Taking a step back here I feel your daughter has absolutely NOTHING to feel ashamed about at all.
She went to Uni, she managed at Uni while dealing with mental health issues AND she complete the course rather than dropping out.
She has done amazingly & as she is still young she has time on her side to further her education.
Tell her from me she did great & I am proud that she managed despite all the hurdles she faced.

Life long mental health sufferer here & I didn’t get past the personal statement part of Uni application.
If couldn’t manage that then I’d never manage assignments & now I am older & I think back to being in school always struggled in a classroom setting. Physically doing things to learning rather than listening to information & writing things down was a much better way for me
to learn.
Although I always did reasonably well in test situations it was more google brain & pressure that helped me there as no-matter how much I tried to revise I never managed longe than 5mins of reading or making notes to revise from then when it can time to use those notes they made absolutely no sense to me.
Can she retake the final exams or ask her Uni to give her a breakdown of where things went wrong in the testing so she can learn from the situation & maybe get more help in or focus her study more that area?

The lottery is public money. It’s raised by the public and the public like to see gold medals. I’m afraid it’s that simple.

You make it sound like people playing the lottery are doing it to raise money for a good cause! That's absolute rot and you know it. They are hoping to win money for themselves. It's that simple.

Calling it 'public money' as if it were some sort of investment over which people get to have a say because they have bought a lottery ticket is disingenuous at best and complete bollocks at worst.

You’re 21/22 when you graduate if you go straight from school. You have another 60 years of living ahead of you. But the time for travelling or gaining work experience in areas that may not be typical graduate fields is over?!

Exactly. At graduation this summer one of our students told us she's off travelling for a year and then she'll get a job. She got the most enthusiastic reaction from all of us academics, who all told her she's exactly right. Once you're working, most don't get that kind of opportunity until retirement, love to see young people taking their time to enter the rat race.

It may be worth looking into the breakdown of her grades and speaking to lecturers etc to see if there is any possibility of an appeal for a 2.2 if she was close.

Get advice from the Student support/union, but I'm pretty sure she would not have grounds for an appeal unless a) there was a procedural mistake or b) it was mismarked e.g. the dissertation by someone with no knowledge. there's also likely to be a time-dependent right of appeal. These decisions are usually final by the time they get to the examiners board and they will have already looked to see if any marks could be lifted/she's on a boundary, usually unis err on the generous side. If it's a third, it probably really is a third (unless procedural errors have occurred, one of my students caught one recently which was a wrongly entered mark, other things like wrong weighting have also been corrected).

Tbh I'd focus a little on the why and support her to look at the what next. Obviously feedback should be available- maybe she was stronger in some modules than others. Also how the classification was worked- it could be that she couldn't get a higher classification if she didn't a certain module. Chat to FE colleges- she will get credit for previous learning so it is 100% valuable. I dropped out after 4 years and was able transfer credit to Open University to get a degree and a post grad. I'm sure she is so disappointed but this is a blip that can be overcome.

This sounds a very sensible idea. There is no need to rush back into studying. Credit for previous learning lasts a number of years so worth checking that out (it's around 5 years I think but maybe more) Getting experience is so positive and if she's motivated after having a disappointing outcome she will do great

I strongly disagree. There are three times when it is best to travel - before your studies, during your studies in the long holidays, and after your studies.

Education gives you choices. If she CHOOSES to travel, or work in the corner shop, or get a graduate job, or win the lottery and flick through magazines all day then good for her. I can’t think of a more horrific life than doing what is expected of you by other people.

@mathanxiety I think there’s a bit missing from the end of your post, you wrote…….

”It also gives students……..”

I can't think of a more horrific life than one spent regretting missing the boat and failing to gain financial independence.

This young woman got a third and will need to work all the harder to get a graduate level job because of that. Most grad schemes are closed to her. I'm not sure she could get a civil service job with a result like that. Yet she's only now thinking about 'work experience' and plans to head off traveling.

I am forming a picture of someone who hasn't bought into the idea of becoming independent, someone who doesn't yet see herself as an adult. Maybe even someone who hasn't been encouraged or nudged into forming a plan for her twenties.

This is not about doing what everyone expects of you, hopping cheerfully aboard the gerbil wheel, etc. It's about creating options for yourself, with the understanding that options are only real if they are financially feasible. The option to live independently isn't feasible if you don't have a job or if your job doesn't pay much. The option to travel and have fun with friends isn't feasible either - and surely there comes a point where the bank of mum and dad rolls down the shutters. Does this young woman want those options?

The whole point of bringing up children and supporting them through their education is that they will become independent.

Of course children should, amongst other things, become independent.
But they don't all do it at the same pace.

Your post seems very judgemental and prescriptive mathanxiety.

@mathanxiety ’missing the boat and failing to gain financial independence’? What boat? There is no boat.

Unless there are extenuating circumstances most young people leave education, get a job, work hard, take overtime or a second job, save money and so on. ‘Even’ people with thirds and people with nothing more than GCSEs.

I would always encourage anyone to travel at any age, obviously it’s a bit easier with no ties, but I took my children travelling for a month at a time more than once.

Travel doesn’t have to mean full moon parties on a beach, travel can mean broadening your experience of life, learning tolerance, patience, resourcefulness, compassion, these qualities will change you as a person. It will give you (you = people in general) a different outlook and May even make you reassess which direction your life is going in.

Does she even want to join the Civil Service? I don’t remember reading that.