How did DD get a third? Anyone who works at uni know?

[greensofas]

Bright DD, AAB at a level (covid results but all essays marked at that level) got her Russell group uni of choice in a topic she had studied at A level. Worked hard at uni, tons of library time and going to lectures/study groups. Has struggled all the way through with ups and downs in results even though she has enjoyed subject. In final year found it all very hard and ended up on antidepressants and therapy. Still worked like a Trojan though (competitive with herself)
Just graduated with a third. I know she is depressed with result and after googling and coming on mumsnet, everyone seems to say 'only the lowest get thirds these days' or 'only the ones that didn't even try'
She doesn't seem to be either of those things. I feel so sad for her. Any advice or words or wisdom?

Presumably it wasn't a surprise?

She struggled in final year with her mental health

There's so many possible reasons. Just because someone puts time in doesn't mean they are actually working appropriately or affectively.

She could have waffled. Could have answered questions wrong or not read/understood them properly. She could have done bad in assignments. So many reasons but clearly it was taking a toll on her if she was having mental health struggles. When she receives her graduation certificate, she should also receive a module breakdown of grades. It's usually year 2 and 3 added together to get a final grade. Did she live at home? Are you sure she was actually studying?

I'm sure it wasn't a surprise to her (think she was hoping it would be a 2:2) but she found it hard to discuss results with me. It's more the fact that everyone is saying that only the lowest 10% get thirds these days and I really don't feel like that fits her.
Obviously she's an adult, I only hear what she wants to tell me but I do believe her.

Just let her know that it’s not the end of the world. What was it in and what would she like to do next?

I got a third and I went on to have a successful and well-paid career.

I got a breakdown of my marks for each module, identified a module where I had got a first class grade, and wangled myself onto a course of postgrad study particularly in the topic of that module as I was able to show that my overall degree result wasn't reflective of my ability in that area.

I didn't end up working in that field anyway, but the additional qualification meant that the 3rd class degree wasn't the last word in my education so I was able to go for graduate jobs that specified 2:1 degree or better as a postgrad degree is better.

No she lived at uni but she had no reason to lie to me about how much she studied- she was always at the library, her group of friends were pretty conscientious as well. They had fun but were not wild.
Doubt she will show me the certificate, she's very sad/ashamed at the mo.

Well yes only 10% of degrees awarded are at that class so technically she was indeed the lowest 10%.

As to what went wrong, could have been a number of things: reaching a natural maximum at A level and finding degree level just too much intellectually, MH being too much to cope with alongside academic study, not understanding what was needed for decent grades, not submitting assignments, failing some exams.

Remind her she still has a degree. And in a few years time no one will ask what classification.

Does she have a job or something sorted?

She's planning to do sone work experience then do a bit of travelling. Very reluctant to study again at the moment, unsurprising I suppose. Hopefully after that she can come fresh to the situation. I don't know how difficult the job situation will be though.

Was she tested for any deficiency?

I think all you can do now is be there for her and listen to her issues - how she feels, what she wants to do next etc

Can she not ask for exam or tutor feedback?

No one ever asks what classification you got. Employers are just interested in whether you have a degree.

There will be transferable skills from her degree that she can mention at interview - critical thinking, research skills etc.
Passing is an achievement.
And I know students who work incredibly hard for their third class degrees.
I wouldn't assume it meant someone hadn't tried.

You say she found it hard-so that would be why.

Its possible she was studying a subject that was not aligned with her natural abilities.

It’s all done now, but when struggling to understand the course, she could have sought clarification on assessment criteria and asked lecturers to elaborate on feedforward if she was not getting the grades she expected.

It sound like she has a good work ethic, so regardless of her degree classification, she will likely excel in her career or future studies once she is in a better situation with her mental health.

Completely disagree with this statment. The graduate programme where I work only accepts graduates with a minimum of a 2:1.

Just give her some love from strangers on the internet. It might feel like the end of the world but it probably won't be.

'Evidence of study at degree level' is often enough for employers.

One of mine got an ordinary degree rather than honours as she had mental health problems in the third year, along with Covid lockdown & strikes there was no support at all. She managed to get a job in her preferred industry by shining at interview & now she is in, no-one will ever ask again (hopefully!)

That's really disappointing for her. Really good to hear that she has some plans though.

I think it's sensible to get some work experience and perhaps leave studying behind. Someone who works very hard but doesn't get top grades sounds like someone who is likely to do better in a job. She HAS got a degree, that's great. It sounds like a fairly hands-on boss could be a good idea. Does she know what kind of work she would like?

Just give her some love from strangers on the internet
Oh, heavens, what did I just say! Tell her we care and she'll be fine, if you get the chance.
Love from internet strangers might lead her down a totally different career path!

As someone else said, employers that I have had have never asked for my classification.

That fact that she went to uni and passed at the end shows aptitude.

It will be difficult news for her of course but if one thing I have learnt is, experience is key. As long as she is going on to gain work experience in her field, this will shine through for employers.

Just to add. Time spent studying doesn't necessarily mean time well spent. We all have different study habits. Most people like to think that they know how to study. But common methods can actually lead to the illusion of knowledge. I have 2 undergrad and 2 masters degrees so have spent a fair bit of time studying.

Surely not the lowest 10% as she has still passed and got a degree and there will be people who failed so did not get a degree at all. It might be the lowest 10% of degree earners but not of all the people at uni.
It must feel disappointing for her, but she had mental health problems to deal with and even if its lower tgan she would like, she has still achieved- she has a degree now.

Depends on graduate scheme/pathway.

Top Graduate schemes like Deloitte etc want a 2:1 or 1st but for teaching for example you can have a third. Depends on career pathway.

Top graduate schemes for top firms you used to have to have a degree from RG uni too - so a 2:2 from University of Leeds would get you further than a 2:1 from York St John for example - but I’m not sure this is the case now or not tbh?

Either way OP’s DD will be fine.

I really don't feel like that fits her.

It doesn’t define her life from now on.

It’s a shame - you say her results were up and down and she struggled in the final year, so she ended up in the bottom 10%. What’s done is done.

Of my siblings - I’m one of three - the one who got the third-class degree is out-earning the others by a considerable margin.

It’s what she does next that counts. Or even the thing she does after the thing she does next. A career is years in the making.

It’s OK to be disappointed but please tell her not to be ashamed.

That's not my experience. There is a space for degree and classification on most application forms.

Surely not the lowest 10% as she has still passed and got a degree and there will be people who failed so did not get a degree at all. It might be the lowest 10% of degree earners but not of all the people at uni.
Yes you're quite right - many will have started uni and dropped out with nothing. She has made it to the end, despite her struggles. That shows some tenacity which should stand her in good stead long term.

A bit of work experience followed by travel sounds like a great plan! A TEFL course might be productive?