How did DD get a third? Anyone who works at uni know?

[greensofas]

Bright DD, AAB at a level (covid results but all essays marked at that level) got her Russell group uni of choice in a topic she had studied at A level. Worked hard at uni, tons of library time and going to lectures/study groups. Has struggled all the way through with ups and downs in results even though she has enjoyed subject. In final year found it all very hard and ended up on antidepressants and therapy. Still worked like a Trojan though (competitive with herself)
Just graduated with a third. I know she is depressed with result and after googling and coming on mumsnet, everyone seems to say 'only the lowest get thirds these days' or 'only the ones that didn't even try'
She doesn't seem to be either of those things. I feel so sad for her. Any advice or words or wisdom?

If she wants to travel and get some work experience, I agree with a PP’s idea to do a TEFL! I did one when I graduated - this one can be authenticated by Hague Apostille so she will be able to use it to get a job in countries that require official qualifications. It’s a short course and can be completed in her own time - I did it in a week https://www.tefltrainingcollege.com/

Teaching abroad is a great way to travel and also build your confidence. My MH issues were a struggle when I was at uni, as I mentioned in my previous comment, and my confidence wasn’t great as a result, but working abroad really helped. I felt like if I could do this, I could do anything! It was also really fun and exciting to meet others from around the world and explore and travel. Pay is great in a lot of countries - in China, for example, you can earn a minimum of £2000 a month but with free accommodation and free meals (while at school), so I was able to save a lot and travel a lot and have lots of spare cash for enjoying myself!

A lot of people I met (myself included) went on to do a PGCE or masters degree after a few years of teaching abroad. These days, a lot of universities provide a pay-per-module distance learning option so you can complete the PGCE or masters degree while working abroad. Usually you need a 2:2 or above to get onto these courses, but they will accept someone with a lower grade if they have work experience in the field. So if she’s interested in education and travel, this is an option! It worked for me, anyway!

@CaramelMac - I know several of DS's friends who have been rejected from every graduate trainee scheme and they have firsts! I think there's just a massive over-subscription for every role.

I’m my experience - as I’ve previously mentioned I got a third - some things will require certain grades, for example before I got my grade I looked at a PGCE and they do have a minimum degree grade.
However outside HE and in my regular working life and career I’ve never been asked and frequently see job adverts stating ‘must be educated to degree level’. Very very rarely have I seen a grade specified.
She’ll be ok OP, there is life after a third and I can attest to that!

You can get funding for a second degree in a STEM subject.

OP

Congratulations to your DD, she has an honours degree, that is an achievement.

As others have said she would have known that she wasn't on track for a better classification, she probably didn't want to disappoint you or thought she could pull her grades up.

Spending hours in a library doesn't equate to effective study.

She is at the end of one stage of her life and the start of the next one.

Travelling sounds like a good option, or work or think about further study. But she can take some time to re group.

It's what she does with the rest of her life. One of our friends got a third albeit in 1982. She had a good career on the marketing side of one-of the big insurance companies, and later on became a local Councillor, is pretty senior in that role and has a raft of non exec directorships.

and she married an investment banker who founded a hedge fund

Kids lie to their parents, whether they're truculent and argumentative or sweet and placid ones.
I remember smirking because I knew the truth when my MIL told me she didn't think it was my SIL's style to get plastered.

@FlamingYam When was this and which field? It would be interesting to know. Thanks

@IdSell which field was the graduate scheme? It was enterprise rent a car and would have been 2009 I think. Completely irrelevant to my psychology and criminology degree.

Mental health struggles will always make things much harder. I also think it is possible to overwork...overthinking it and missing the key points. Degrees are so different to A levels so ironically, if you develop the A level skills too well and get them too ingrained, you may struggle a lot to make the jump to a degree. I do sometimes wonder if A levels need to be developed to help prepare for this jump.

It's easy to say now, I know, but I would try not to worry. Everyone I know who got a third has gone on to have a good career if they wanted one. The only one who is a bit lost still is the one who never worked out what he really wanted and can't really manage in workplaces (I think he may be ND), and that's a completely different situation. Just as A levels are nothing like uni, uni is nothing like the workplace. Youth is a time of adaptation and recalibration.

If she's bright and willing to work and fight her demons (and she clearly is), she will do fine. With the odd very specialist exception, this means nothing in the grand scheme of things. As she develops work experience, that'll count for much more.

The thing about employers not caring about your degree grade is only true once you have established yourself in a career. It doesn’t apply to getting a first graduate job.

If I was her OP I would try and get a level 4 apprenticeship. Or a job to get experience then look for a level 4 apprenticeship.

The university academic study I think suits some people not others. Mumsnet has the elitist view generally that the higher your marks at uni are the smarter you are. That’s not my experience tbh, I’ve worked with lots of people with 1sts who can’t see the bigger picture, are incapable of making decisions, can’t think up solutions to problems, have zero commercial awareness etc. People at work think I’m really clever funnily enough and I’m a Desmond graduate. FWIW I do have a masters though in which I did better because it encourages more original and critical thought than standard degree level.

She needs to find her niche/ what she is good at and she hasn’t yet.

I was academic at school, getting all As at GCSE and A,B,B at A level, without particularly trying.
I then went to a Russell group university and worked my socks off, including arranging extra 1-on-1 tuition with my course tutor, but it was clear I was going to fail as I headed towards the end of my first year. I got 42% or whatever you needed to scrape a pass.
The subject was just SO much more complex at university level than it had been at A level.
I switched to a different subject at the same university - and one that I really love - and got a 2:1.
But it's the fact that your daughter made it through 3 whole years and came out with a 3rd that makes it a bit more unusual.

Hi OP. Sorry to hear about your DD's struggles. Did she fail, and have to resit, more than one module? If so, they are usual capped (even if they do well) at 40%, minimum pass. Enough of these will add up to a third.

She will have a transcript which explains her marks.

Anecdotal but some people (male and female but see it most in girls) are funnelled into sciences by social pressure and really it isn't their best hand. Seen so many do A levels ,and then off to uni in eg chemistry/maths/biology/economics who really don't do as well as they could have had they done English/ sociology/politics etc. Not because the latter are easier but just because some students don't recognise or accept they are better at them. What subject was she studying?

Have fact checked 😅 and it's still only asking for a bachelors degree.

That's unusual but good to know.

It is a big disappointment for her now. Support her and give her space to be sad.

Then build her up again.

I was at Oxford. it was the era of the 2E offer, but most people got As with a smattering of other grades. Some of these people had to get 3rds. She went to a good university as well, so others were also bright there. It doesn’t mean that she is stupid or a failure. Something just didn’t go her way.

These are the career trajectories of my friends who got thirds:

1. Logica (which was an international IT consultancy) ->Google -> now running own tech company in Japan

2. Arthur Andersen (Big 5 city accountancy firm at the time) - didn’t get through his accountancy exams, and RIFFed -> energy trading. He did fantastically well at this, made a packet and retired by 40.

3. the medics who got 3rds are all consultants. They had a pretty similar career path to me. Of the ones I know well, most had a similar pass/fail rate for postgraduate membership exams as the rest of us.

I can’t remember the last time my degree class has been needed, or even asked about.

So, yes, it stings now, but that will fade, and she can still have a happy and successful future.

Throughout my career I've been asked if I have a degree.

I've never once been asked what classification it is.

I work in a uni, looking after final year law students. It does depend you the specific uni but final grade is usually second and final year modules combined - ours is weighted 60% towards final year modules. There doesn’t have to have been a long research based module btw. Anyway. in a normal year, If she was grading a 2:1 in second year that would suggest she failed some of her final year modules, depending on the split, and therefore would be offered resits. She would know about that. When her health became a challenge did she let the uni know? She should then have applied for exceptional circumstances ans would have been given some support around her assessments (even just extra time) and then any resits would usually be uncapped.

However, there is a national marking and assessment boycott at the moment so many students don’t have their correct grade classification, or one at all. If your daughters uni is one of those is she sure that this is her final classification?

a degree isn’t the only pathway through life - hell I did 20 years in good jobs before I took mine. I have also worked managing apprenticeships and these are a brilliant way to secure a career. And May jobs don’t need that degree. It really depends what she wants to do.

I no definitely agree with SOWK about asking for a breakdown of her marks.

I can't remember what he got for A levels, but my friend's son left secondary with an 8, 9s, As and A*s. He scraped a 2.2 by one mark. Just happen to be friends with the top performers' Mums from primary and he was the first of this group to find a full-time job, which pays enough for him to live away from home.

I'm sure you're all disappointed right now, but in time this will be in the past and I hope it works out for her.

@IdSell oh god, it could have been completely different after all those years.

I don't know if it was the same at the time but I remember having a discussion with the area manager whilst dealing with a courtesy car and he said it was more about the person than the grade and there just needed to be a base level of education so probably the same. It was a bloody hard interview process which I failed 😂

At my Russel group uni they never explained how to get the higher marks and after I did fmy first set of exams I was massively disappointed. I spoke to my student suppirt and she noted that for chemistry, maths and physics exams I scored the highest because the answer was the answer if you see what I mean. On other exams if I regurgitated what I had been taught in lectures accurately I'd get 50% but to get the higher marks I needed to add info/demonstrate wider learning from recommended reading and suggested reading and reference sources. Once I knew that I was better able to tackle exams better.

I'd say it's too late and probably not that helpful to go over if her tutor was helpful to her or if she ever got any feedback. Let her go on her travels and then once she's back look at what her options are.

That’s not strictly true, I’m afraid.

This is not true. I've changed jobs twice this year and both times needed my degree certificate even though it was well over 20 years ago and I've had a wealth of experience since.

Of course a graduate programme will set a minimum of 2:1 - they will be investing a lot of budget in the programme to hot-house people they intend to be future management and only want students who have attained a required level.

That's a very different proposition to putting Degree on a job application for an entry level role as a starting point for work experience

This is very true. I find it bizarre people don’t know this. More people than ever get a 1st or 2:1 for the reasons outlined.

It’s business essentially.

Thank you so much for all this advice, was very happy to see some of it this morning. Sone of you have had very similar journeys through uni it seems.

I'm so glad she made it through too- she really wanted to leave and give up just after Christmas so I'm proud that she made it through despite really struggling. I'm sad because she's sad.
I would be very interested to see the breakdown but she's not in the right place at the moment to discuss and I don't know if she's had them anyway because of the strikes. I know her best friend from uni hasn't even got her final grade yet.
Yes she's planning to do some volunteer work, then just a regular local job to save for travelling. Then a stint of travelling (I might get her to look in to the TEFL) before trying to find a career.