Depressed about MFL in education

[MFLresearch]

I last year alerted my 6th formers about Sheffield University who have, regrettably, scaled down their MFL offering. A great shame but part of a pattern sector wide.

It is spectacularly depressing, as a MFL teacher in a state 6th from college, to track the decline of MFL over my teaching career. University MFL applications are at rock bottom in our college this year because of uncertainty about year abroad funding - Turing scheme is a lesser offering than Erasmus and our families cannot afford to make up the difference and fund the year abroad. Consequently, of my talented MFL students, fewer than ever will be pursuing MFL study at university. A-level uptake and degree applications are the lowest ever at my college - and projected to get even worse in 2023-4.

I heard on the grapevine that further MFL courses are under threat at universities currently offering them. A number of post 1992 unis apparently considering withdrawing them. Has anyone else heard similarly?

Posting really because it’s late, I can’t sleep and the whole MFL/teaching situation depressing AF (plus the government still not offering decent pay so my colleagues and I will be striking again).

Sorry, formatting gone awry in previous post! Intended to refer to A star at A level.

That is reassuring. Thank you.

Would love to hear where your DC are studying their MFL degrees. Are they enjoying it?

we are currently looking at a joint honours English Lit & French degree.

DS1 was considering Spanish A Level but four out of his class were native speakers.

DN is doing French and Politics at university and says there are loads of students who have a french parent/grandparent and have been bilingual since early childhood.

It’s extremely unfair to refer to private school pupils as “posh boys”. There are all sorts of Dc in private schools and shouldn’t we be pleased that boys and girls want to continue with MFLs? It is not their fault that state teaching and interest in MFLs is so poor. MFL teachers will be non existent soon! But Brexit was what the majority wanted. I agree with other posters here, too many people see no value in MFLs. They also don’t understand their advantages at degree level. It’s appalling.

We also need to realise that MFLs are not a career. They are a humanity with an additional skill. DD did a MFL degree at Bristol and I agree with @HonorHiding . DD is a barrister too! MFLs open up many areas of employment. It’s actually limiting to just stick to business MFL. It’s the research, essays and cultural understanding that makes academic MFL grads employable. Translation is pretty dead in the water and utterly boring. MFL degrees are a great launchpad for loads of careers.

For anyone considering MFL at university, you don’t need Astars anywhere. AAA at a few. Most are less. Bristol, Durham, Manchester, Exeter, Lancaster and Newcastle are all worth a look. The contextual offers are low - BBB not unusual. DCs will get offers! Contextual offer holders will get Turing money. It’s more difficult for the “squeezed middle”. However we should all be pleased private schools are still teaching MFLs. MFL A levels if you start MFL learning in y7/8 does say something about you! Certainly ab initio does! The year abroad helps with growth and maturity. So it’s still a hugely worthwhile degree.

I was at a Polytechnic in the 80s studying a non-vocational degree, there were language courses then, I knew some taking Spanish/Latin American studies. Just checked and they still run various single and combined modern languages, as well as international relations and similar.

So how much more expensive is the year abroad now than before when there was Erasmus?
What bit was funded before that is not funded now?

My year abroad just about squeezed into the pre-Erasmus era, where MFL students either took paid jobs, typically as school language assistants, or applied for grants for university study in the normal way. The grants were slightly enhanced to cover increased travel costs, but otherwise they were available to anyone in line with household income, as if it was a standard year at the home university. So what's on offer, or isn't, with the Turing scheme?

I work in an academic private school. The numbers studying MFL at our place have remained pretty stable, but we are in London with lots of european parents/kids of dual nationality and lots already speak a second language. It's comparatively hard for them to access A*s, but no more so than in some of the "difficult" subjects (Chemistry, Maths, History etc). It's comparatively easy for them to get into Oxbridge for MFL (and indeed other selective universities) which helps keep up the number applying for languages at university - it's become much more difficult for them than it would have been 10 years ago in other subjects - rightly so. I'm not a languages teacher but did a language A Level and despair when people cannot see the value in speaking another language, or indeed in subjects which are not STEM or degrees which are not directly vocational.

My Son wanted to study German at A Level. We're were called a week before his course was due to start to say they would no longer be offering it as there was not enough interest in it. This left him rushing to find another subject with less than a week to go and really upset at the one course he'd really been looking forward to starting being cancelled.

I agree, it's very sad to hear about all the language departments' closure and/or reduction of courses and number of students.
Tuition fees haven't helped either as languages are felt like you aren't guaranteed a good job in the end.

For anyone considering MFL at university, you don’t need Astars anywhere. AAA at a few. Most are less. Bristol, Durham, Manchester, Exeter, Lancaster and Newcastle are all worth a look. The contextual offers are low - BBB not unusual. DCs will get offers!

I can see the benefit if applying for MFL but what if you take a language A level but apply for something else - English or History, for example? I'm slightly concerned that DD, as a non- native speaker, will end up with a B in the mix where a higher grade is required as part of the standard offer. I imagine it's too much to expect admissions to take their A level choices into consideration before offering? That said, she's set on taking French so we'll just have to cross that bridge when we come to it.

I'm old... but even 25 years ago my best friend who is v multi lingual, naturally gifted decided against studying French at uni because in her words I don't want to read books in French that I wouldn't even read in English, essentially thought the courses looked dull. She did hotel management instead with a language element in it. That being 25 years ago if the courses haven't evolved I can imagine would appear even worse now. Most people I know who are gifted at languages have given up after A'level but remain fluent.

Sadly I agree - and I say this as a linguist.

The tech company I work for employs staff who speak various languages, but they all speak English to a sufficient degree, despite none of them having studied English at uni. They probably studied it at school, but they're all much better at it than school students in this country who've learnt MFL. More motivation, more opportunity to practise...

I find this an odd attitude. I totally acknowledge that an MFL degree is not a vocational degree, so yes, if you're someone who is dismissive of all non-vocational degrees, you'll be equally dismissive of MFL degrees as you will be of history, English literature or philosophy degrees etc. Maybe you're in that camp? But if you're someone who accepts that there can be a value to doing a degree in a non-vocational subject that interests you, why wouldn't you see value in doing an MFL degree? Did you really see your MFL degree as a boring means to an end? Obtain no pleasure in experiencing your knowledge of the language increasing? No enjoyment from reading literature in the original language or learning about the culture or history of a country where the language is spoken? Being able to join in a conversation without forcing the other participants to switch language for your benefit? Never form a friendship that wouldn't have happened without your knowledge of the language? Enjoy a conversation you wouldn't otherwise have had? Take pleasure from being able to operate in a foreign language on your year abroad?

@Pearfacebananapoop
I am really sorry, but your friend didn’t research properly. All good MFL departments will of course have literature, but in addition culture, art, film, history, politics modules and many more. It would be a very bland student who really couldn’t find interesting options. Literature should always be part of a MFL degree. Maybe your friend didn’t realise English degrees have compulsory literature too
in many instances. Generally you prove your academic worth by a range of study. Just learning French for hospitality is very limited. I would never advise a hospitality degree if you can do MFL at a good university. But each to their own.

Anyone who sees MFLs as purely vocational doesn’t understand academic MFLs. They are not so different to history, politics or philosophy: except that the student studies languages and goes abroad. These degrees all confer skills to the degree holder but are not vocational. It’s a very limited view to think we no longer need to understand other cultures and people. Shame on us.

@Boosterquery Ha! Same subjects quoted. I agree with what you say.

I’m in NI so Irish still has some chance, Spanish is doing ok. French, forget it. German R.I.P.

Harsh grading and native speakers are big issues. Pretty much no pupil I have taught in 20 years has got their highest GCSE mark in their MFL. If they’re lucky and work really hard and are really clever they might get the same grade as they get in other subjects but typically they’ll often get one grade lower in MFL. Despite them telling me it’s way more work than the other subjects. The work/preparation required for the oral and the writing is immense.

And yes, the trajectory in the last 20-30 years is shocking. I was one of many pupils doing two languages for GCSE and even A level. Hard getting them to do one now.

@ICanBuyMyself
My DD did 2 MFL GCSEs. I think the brightest can do well. She was lucky her school offered 2xMFL because it made 2xA level MFLs a sensible choice. However so few schools offer linguists 2x gcse MFLs. They offer loads of science subjects but 1 MFL. So students who are good at MFL are denied breadth. It’s not acceptable. It’s better prep to do 2. Many won’t necessarily have the confidence to do ab initio so 2 at GCSE snd then A level teslky helps.

I did an English degree with German literature in it ( in German). Some people do actively like literature.

In fact in GCSE and A level film,the films that often get the best response are the global films. The kids very soon lose their inhibitons. It's a shame there isn't literature and films in GCSE MFL, I think.

Every single school I know of within a 25 mile radius offers 2 to 4 languages. I am happy to be corrected, but I don't think it's true (yet) that state schools only offer one MFL, as a rule.

Wow! That is certainly not our experience in south wales. One MFL (and Welsh) offered to GCSEs then none at a-level (apart from Welsh). That is the same in every secondary cluster school in our area.

I guess maybe the Welsh us knocking it out? I remember the days when Welsh comps all offered Russian!

2 of my 3 DCs did 2 MFL, French and German, at GCSE, good grades, although not as then A* but neither took either on to A level. Their choice of course. Although both took all humanities A levels

DH is an MFL grad, so some level of encouragement, and competence, for them at home to start with. He also did Latin A level, and apparently found Italian quite straightforward at Uni as well.

However I am only aware of one of any of my DCs’ friendship groups who has gone onto to study MFL at degree level. And all from a school that had and presumably still has good MFL offerings.

I'm at a conference in France for a couple of days with attendees from across Europe. Despite my MFL degree, I'm finding that most are very competent in English and my communications in their native languages are unnecessary although welcomed. I feel this must be broadly the case in many commercial settings.

Do you mean "you" as in "general you people", or do you mean "you" as in "me"?

Because what you say above isn't what I think personally at all - it's what I think young people choosing subjects now are thinking about MFL.

I chose my degree decades ago, and FWIW it wasn't MFL - I call myself a linguist because I studied linguistics, and also because separately from that, both formally and informally, I have learnt various languages. Linguistics is very non-vocational, and in fact in my uni interview I was asked what was the point in studying linguistics. I said that it furthered human knowledge, and that the knowledge could be useful in the future. This turned out to be very true, and I use my degree in ways that weren't even thought of when I took it.