Talk sense to me about DD not applying to Oxbridge

[MixedFeeling]

DD is very strong academically, straight 9s at GCSE and on track for 4 A stars at A level. She wants to study psychology.

I’d always imagined she might apply to Oxford or Cambridge but yesterday she told me that she doesn’t want to. Her reasons are that she thinks it will be stressful, that she thinks the other students will be too serious and she wants to be in a bigger city with more going on. On her list are Bristol, Edinburgh, Glasgow and Leeds.

WWYD? I don’t know whether I should just leave it or ask her to give it more thought- I think she’s wrong about Oxbridge students all being serious and it being especially stressful (DH and I were both at Cambridge and that was certainly not our experience- our friends were a mixed bag and the tutorial system was very supportive. Nb I’m aware that the fact we were both there has probably subconsciously informed our expectations for DD.)

Obviously the choice is hers ultimately. But I don’t want her to decide based on false information or fear of failure and then regret it. Keep talking or leave it?

(And have a read of some of the frankly insanethreads on here where parental disappointment and resentment ooze from every pore because people think our hopes and desires for our kids outweigh their own) (Not saying this is you OP- but it certainly helps with putting things into perspective and thinking "jeez, that could have been me if I weren't so normal and sensible" 😂)

I will do 😁

Thank you to the people who have posted helpful things- I know you are right. DH takes the view a PP mentioned- it's just one of 5 choices, why not stick it down and see what happens? But I'm not sure how possible this is in practice. I am very happy for her to go anywhere she wants but I do worry that she's worried about not getting in and that this is a factor.

In terms of blind CVs etc, at the moment her plan is to go on and do a doctorate in clinical psychology after her degree and once she has some work experience- these courses are very competitive and academics definitely matter. But the unis on her list are all good ones so shouldn't preclude this.

I’d always imagined she might apply to Oxford or Cambridge but yesterday she told me that she doesn’t want to. Her reasons are that she thinks it will be stressful, that she thinks the other students will be too serious and she wants to be in a bigger city with more going on. On her list are Bristol, Edinburgh, Glasgow and Leeds

To be honest - she's bang on with those assumptions. I thought that too! I went to Bath and living near Brizzol was epic.

My friends went to Glasgow and appeared on University Challenge as cheeky science chappies (unusual for UC!) and they also had an epically hilarious time there. So much laughing & they're immensely intelligent.

What do people mean about University not mattering?

My brother has just secured training programme at top law firm in London and they only hire from Cambridge and Oxford.

My DH is a recruiter for the biggest tech companies in the world and they massively look at university, they have a list of top institutions globally that they look to hire from and rarely deviate.

@MixedFeeling she'd do amazing at Glasgow if clinical psychology is her thing! It's an amazing university for that (I know this as that's what my bestfriend studied who is sometimes on BBC Radio 4, University Challenge and is now writing a book!)

I have 2 sons at uni (not Oxbridge) and my advice is just support what they want to do. Both seem happy and enjoy it and seem to be well rounded with friends and different acrivities/interests.

We have a family member who is at C, the college system is supportive but they spend so much time studying i worry about them (have never voiced my concern as he is not my DC) . If my DS had the opportunity of C now I wouldn't be thrilled so I don't think it is the be all.and end all.

Many employers now want a more diverse workforce and use cv blind recruitment so no school or Uni included on the application form. Research has shown that academic success at A levels and degree doesn’t necessarily translate to successful employees.

I was your dd. I actually got offered a place at Oxford and turned it down. Please be very careful what you’re saying about this around your dd, I knew my mum really wanted me to go to Oxford, there was a lot of talk about how I would have been the only one in my family to do so, she couldn’t hide her excitement about it all and when I decided not to go I could tell she was bitterly disappointed in me, despite her saying otherwise. It affected our relationship for the rest of our time together (she died in 2019). I always felt she was disappointed with me.

I'm another one saying let her choose. I applied to Cambridge for engineering, was offered a place and turned it down in favour of Bristol. I got the grades for Cambridge so I could have gone.

Had a fabulous 4 years there, literally not one single regret and it's never held me back career wise

I certainly haven't had that experience but I've only ever worked in tech and so had DH. They can be very particular about University. Maybe other sectors are different.

My brother has just secured training programme at top law firm in London and they only hire from Cambridge and Oxford thankfully this is becoming rarer these days!

I have a DD at Oxford now and one who graduated last year.

I don’t think it’s a ‘stick it on the UCAS list just because why not’ kind of thing- application involves a very focused personal statement and preparation for specific oxbridge exams and then the early interviews.

My pair really wanted to go and worked hard to achieve that and absolutely love/loved it.

Oxford has lots going on- it’s got plenty of places to drink and dance and my DS went to uni in a bigger city and still only really went to a few specifically student friendly nightlife places so not sure the whole big city vibe is always relevant. But to your daughter it might be and that’s important.

The workload is high but for my two who love their subject they are absolutely relishing the way it is taught and the expectations to study. But they both knew that’s what they wanted. If your DD doesn’t then it won’t be right for her.

DS could have had a strong application but chose not to as the course was more suited to him elsewhere. That is a very adult sensible decision and clearly the right one. I was very proud of him for knowing himself and what he wanted.

In the end you totally have to step back. They will only resent you for pushing and that will not be good for your relationship.
They are old enough to be leaving home so can make that decision for themselves. She will know of the benefits of Oxford and has decided against that so she knows herself.

In terms of blind CVs etc, at the moment her plan is to go on and do a doctorate in clinical psychology after her degree and once she has some work experience- these courses are very competitive and academics definitely matter. But the unis on her list are all good ones so shouldn't preclude this
For psychology this is a really good point. It's extraordinarily competitive.
My DSD decided not to apply for Oxbridge. She's clever but not absolutely top flight. She went to Birmingham which was very strong for this subject.
She's done her Master's and has lots of relevant work experience and finally after 7 years of slog post degree she's doing her PhD.
i have another friend whose DD has been looking at European university too (dual nationality) and applied to, but wasn't offered a place at C.

I've not been super keen to suggest oxbridge to my kids (I was at an Oxbridge
College myself). I had SO much more work than friends in other unis. (Extreme example- I got 3 essays a fortnight and my friend got her first essay a couple of months in). It can be quite isolating as I realised you could easily go days without seeing anyone. I think traditional lectures and classes might help with that. Also as said before if you end up with a 2.2 and could have got a 1st elsewhere that may make a difference to some recruiters.

I had some great friends but even in .y first week I had "what school did you go to?" Conversations. And it took me a while to twig that all the big private schools had heard of each other and were using this as a reference point. I wouldn't use this as a reason not to go but I could see why a student might want a more normal environment.

As a teacher I've seen kids get in absolute knots over applying/prepping/being rejected and it can overshadows your 6th form experience.

I wouldn't actively say no to my kids but we've not done the soft sell/highlighted my time there or anything either!

It's a tough one. I had the grades (and the offer of an interview) but chose not to apply as I preferred Durham, as did my older son.

But my younger son seems a better 'fit' and perhaps I would be a little disappointed if he didn't give it a try. Although I'm well aware of the crazy workloads and one mum summed it up quite well when she said she felt her daughter enjoyed the achievement of having made it to Oxford rather than the actual experience itself.

I'm also conscious that plenty of my older son's friends didn't get more than a couple of offers, despite having flawless grades. At our academically selective private school, there was only one Cambridge offer last year (no judgement, I know they're trying to be more equitable). The boy in question got four A stars but unfortunately failed his Step (?) paper.

It's also a big commitment applying to Oxbridge, a lot of extra preparation needed so far more than just one choice out of five. So, if her heart isn't in it, I think I'd leave it on balance.

Similar really but only with University of Plymouth (and similar)

Plymouth graduates = beginner level
Bath and Cambridge = advanced level and similarly skilled.

My Dad really wanted me to go to Cambridge. I didn’t want to for similar reasons to your DD, I thought it would be too much pressure. I went to Bristol, loved it.

BTW, @MixedFeeling, I absolutely did have the same anxiety as you, in relation to my son's preference. I did sometimes feel that horrible 'need' to for him to chase the kind of abstract notion of academic success that made me feel good when I was a pupil-then-student.
Loads of parents are like that, I think, and provided we self-monitor and step back, as I can see that you do, all will be well.

I think your case is complicated OP. It would be nice to be sure that your DD isn’t shying away because both of her parents went, and she would be devastated to risk letting you down or not measuring up to the family standard. Even perfect grades are no guarantee these days.

If that were the case, I’m sure you would want to reassure her and encourage her to take a crack at it while trying to keep perspective on the lottery element of admissions.

On the other hand, if she genuinely doesn’t fancy it and has 5 other extremely competitive courses she wants to try for…then thats easy.

It comes down to feeling confident that she knows her own mind and is making choices with full knowledge and self understanding.

Which law firm is this? I'm a lawyer and I've never heard of a law firm recruiting exclusively from Oxbridge. When I was applying (around 10 years ago) Oxbridge didn't even offer the postgraduate diploma you need to qualify as a solicitor - I'm not sure if that's changed now but it meant that law students were forced elsewhere following their degree anyway.

If she puts it down and gets in but doesn’t want to go, how will you feel then?

This is good to hear- she's very keen on Glasgow, probably her current first choice.

She is doing her A levels and yesterday was your first conversation about university? Or do you mean yesterday was the first time she mentioned that what you expect isn't what she wants?

Isn't it obvious that lots of people have examples of studying at other universities and enjoying it then get great jobs?

My brother has just secured training programme at top law firm in London and they only hire from Cambridge and Oxford.

The OP's DD doesn't want to do law or tech.

This always gets trotted our about law, which is still in the dark ages in terms of graduate recruitment. Fortunately, many top firms are now starting to recruit university blind.

Oxbridge nowadays is extremely stressful. I ended up on anti-anxiety meds before my exams. There is so much work and so much pressure. Trust your DD. If she’s as smart as you say, she will have thought this through. Don’t pressure her to meet your expectations or to live her life the way you did. Let her find her own path.

I have a friend who turned down a place at Oxford to go to somewhere else because she preferred it. She’s a millionaire now who runs a successful business and I think you have to be quite a special person to ignore the pressures of society and do what’s right for you at 18.

My STEM DD decided against apply to Oxbridge as she knew their style of teaching would not work with her style of learning.

She needs time to really absorb concepts. She knew that a course where she was always running to keep up would not work for her.

Self knowledge is a very useful thing.