DS wants to drop out of Oxford - and it's largely my fault

[Distressedstudent]

My DS is a fresher at Oxford and not enjoying it one bit - the intensive work load, the lack of contact hours, the general 'nerdiness' of it. He had wanted to go to York but, as he was predicted (and got) 4 x A star, we urged him to apply to Oxford (where we went - he had no intention of applying) and then, when he got his offer, to firm it. He very reluctantly agreed after talking to his teachers who said he'd be nuts to turn down Oxford, even though his heart was set on York.

He sees his friends from school having a blast at other universities whereas he has his nose to the grind at Oxford. He is now planning to see his Director of Studies and to see if York will take him from September (to read the same humanities course). He is not interested in my advice as DH and I 'got it wrong' and gave him 'duff advice' (his words).

I am not sure if I am up to replying to anyone kind enough to offer their thoughts because I feel so miserable/disappointed/guilty on his behalf.

My BF, has lost her relationship with her daughter, it was Cambridge or die. Made to believe that there were no other options, her Dd did not apply herself to her A levels and didn’t get an offer.

DD moved out and has yet to speak to her mother.

OP I think he's making a mistake. Can he not stick it out for another term at least? It will improve in his second year.

Hardly the same situation.

Any 4 A * student will be advised to apply. He got in and it would have been stupid to turn it down.

I'm afraid I dont agree. University is about education yes, but its also 3 years of limited responsibility where youre usually living away from home and learning to really be your own person for the first time. That doesn't have to look like parties every night, but its about choosing how you like to spend your time, who you like spending it with etc. I learnt more about myself at university than i did in the 18years prior, and the 10 years since.
OP's son is currently studying but he's learnt about himself is that he prioritises a different type of life. Nothing wrong with that! I was hugely academic, all As, grammar school etc. I came out with a good degree, but the reality is my subject really didn't matter, I would have done well at most things and I doubt it would have affected my career much in any way. What would have affected it was going to a university that impacted my confidence and happiness.

I teach at a university, and I know Oxford well.

Everyone struggles in their first term, if they are being honest. He's already past the point of return for Spring term to leave without paying full terms fees. The step up from A levels even for a A student is large and the added pressure of living alone. I've noticed A students suffer a lot as they are usually the stars at their school, at Oxbridge he's just part of the crowd.

I would suggest he speak to the university; his college will give him lots of support. Student finance lets you have a gift year, so maybe he should wait and see, and if he wants to leave after this academic year is up and restart Year 1 at York in 23/24 year.

He'll probably regret it in much later life...He has to look at the long term,

I did a law degree at Cambridge, but a 2:1 and still had loads of time for fun. I think you did it wrong!

"Actively astonished at the number of parents who would be happy for their kid to pass up an opportunity like this because they didn’t enjoy their first term… good luck with the rest of being an adult."

Thank god there is still some sensible non-woke advice on this forum.

Dear OP it is plain wrong for your DS to leave Oxford for York on the basis of the first few terms being difficult. Does he have a friend whose opinion he respects? Can you phone his tutor at Oxford and ask him to have a private one to one conversation with him.

If all else fails I would swallow my pride and simply plead with him to give it two more terms at Oxford.

Don’t feel bad about prodding him to go. My DH went to Oxbridge and I’m absolutely amazed by the doors it opens for him, even still now in his forties. It would have been amazing if it worked out, and you don’t know til you try.

DD rejected Cambridge and went to Warwick because she didn't like the formalities and it was the right choice. She loved her time at uni and I think she'd have hated the intensity and stuffiness at Cambridge even though I didn't say so when she was considering it.
DS went to York and loved it. Loved the city and the uni. Even lived there for a while after uni.

York will still be lots of work and if he moves 1 year in it’ll be much harder to make friends.

I'm another one who went to Oxford because of the rep and was really unhappy there. I was fine academically - I got a First - but I never fitted in socially. Oxford can sometimes feel very small and claustrophobic, not to mention very old fashioned. I always felt like the weird kid. I went somewhere else for postgrad and it was this mad breath of fresh air. The worst bit is that I knew I didn't like Oxford from my interview and did really like University of East Anglia, where I'd had this excellent interview and the course there had a year abroad I really wanted to do and the students there just seemed more fun.

I still kind of regret not having had the courage to push back at my parents and school who were so keen on Oxford. In all honesty, I'm not actually convinced that in most fields Oxford does open any more doors than a decent 2.1+ from a solid red brick would. Maybe in some of the city firms or law firms that like it for snob value? But I really don't think it's made a massive difference in my life and of my friends, I don't think the Oxford era mates have all done massively better than my other friends and colleagues who did well in other decent universities.

'Actively astonished' at anybody who would want their young adult son/daughter to be miserable for three years, and the implications for their long term mental health, just because they want their child to study at Oxford.

I did a humanities subject at an Oxbridge college and was miserable. Came out with a decent degree, but I would say Oxbridge has been a significant hindrance to my career in two key ways: 1) my self esteem was shot to pieces and never really built back up 2) I experienced a lot of anti-Oxbridge pushback early on, when people found out where I went to university (not so much now - too old for anyone to ask!).

Your son has tried Oxford, so is more qualified than anyone else to make this decision - let him make it. Bravo to him for knowing what will make him happy and having the confidence to follow it.

He will do much better if he has a good and happy university experience and comes bouncing out of his degree into his chosen career - as opposed to starting working life anxious and burnt out.

His generation have been through enough with Covid etc. A key part of his young life has already been hugely restricted / compromised. Time for him to live on his own terms!

How lovely he can talk to you and tell you he's not happy even though he knows you'll be disappointed and great that you support his move to York. Sounds like you have a great relationship OP. Hope he's happy in York which is a wonderful uni and was the making of my DD.

Thank you @DietrichandDiMaggio for confirming what I said in an earlier post about Oxford nightlife.
@stepstepstep i hope you never have a child who’s so unhappy with their life it impacts upon their mental health.

This is so true!

I also lectured at a university and some of the A * students really struggled with no longer being top of the class.

You have to fit into the Oxford culture; academic ability is not enough.

You son isn’t a fresher any more. He’s a first year. You’re only a fresher in your first term, arguably only the first few weeks of the first term.

What do you mean by “lack of contact hours”?

Anyway, I wouldn’t worry too much in your position. He’ll be able to transfer to another university and will do well academically so no harm done really. Even if he repeats his first year, an extra year of study is no big deal at his age. He’ll always know that he gave Oxford a go and it wasn’t his bag- much better than being someone at another University who wishes they had got into Oxford and constantly feels like they are a failure or underachiever.

He just hasn’t enjoyed his first term @DietrichandDiMaggio . Bit of a stretch to say his long term mental health is at risk, and obviously if it is he should change. But lots of people struggle at lots of things to start off with, doesn’t mean they should give up.

Your son is an adult, and it is for him to make his own decisions about where he wants to study. He doesn’t need your permission or your approval. Tell him that it’s his education and his decision and that you will fully support him in whatever he decides to do. Then do exactly that.

DNephew went to Oxford and ultimately got a First in a Humanities subject. But for a postgrad, having a choice between Oxford and either London or Bristol, he's giving Oxford a swerve because he said he never enjoyed the college system or the system of teaching there, and spent three years wondering what the hell he was paying for, given the short terms and the very limited teaching. He accepts that having the Oxford degree potentially opens a lot of doors for him, but does feel that ultimately he would have enjoyed his undergraduate degree far more at a modern or redbrick university.

So, based on that sample of one, I'd say your son needs to go for what he wants, and he's highly unlikely to regret it.

He didn't want to go there in the first place though, and only did so because other people told him he should, just because he could, probably telling him how much he would love it when he got there, and they were wrong.

One and a half terms - over half of his first year course. Things have had long enough to improve for him if they were going to.

@Distressedstudent absolute horse shit! You haven’t listened to your ds at all.

The teachers have only ever known teaching and got excited he got called to Oxford. Ds needed to make choices and as you and his df went Oxford and his teachers were thinking of their alumni, they persuaded him to go Oxford, when in reality he should’ve gone to York where HE wanted to go and where it would’ve been a better fit for him. He only followed what others were telling him.

Not sure why you can’t see this?