DS wants to drop out of Oxford - and it's largely my fault

[Distressedstudent]

My DS is a fresher at Oxford and not enjoying it one bit - the intensive work load, the lack of contact hours, the general 'nerdiness' of it. He had wanted to go to York but, as he was predicted (and got) 4 x A star, we urged him to apply to Oxford (where we went - he had no intention of applying) and then, when he got his offer, to firm it. He very reluctantly agreed after talking to his teachers who said he'd be nuts to turn down Oxford, even though his heart was set on York.

He sees his friends from school having a blast at other universities whereas he has his nose to the grind at Oxford. He is now planning to see his Director of Studies and to see if York will take him from September (to read the same humanities course). He is not interested in my advice as DH and I 'got it wrong' and gave him 'duff advice' (his words).

I am not sure if I am up to replying to anyone kind enough to offer their thoughts because I feel so miserable/disappointed/guilty on his behalf.

You did give him duff advice as you gave him advice about yourself not him! York is hardly a bad uni, let him go.

Let him go where he wants! I had the exact same situation with my daughter. A few weeks into a good uni she knew it wasn’t for her. The social life, the “nerds” and so on. She was miserable and should have been at a happy time in life. She changed schools and had a successful and fun time at a different uni. It was a brilliant move for her.

Afraid you tried to live his life for him, I mean that in the kindest way. I know going to Oxford is amazing but being so incredibly bright I’m sure he will make it anywhere. I’d be positive about York, maybe plan a weekend there so he can get a real idea of it, where halls are, which one he prefers etc. Maybe he could get some work until September and then be comfortable to enjoy it when he starts in September. Good luck to your boy.

I turned down Oxford and have never regretted it - the Russell Group uni I went to was the right fit for me academically and in terms of the whole experience, including disability support. I came into my own there in a way I hadn’t at school, it gave me wings, and I flew academically and socially. I don’t think I would have struggled with the workload at Oxford, but it just wasn’t the right fit for me.

My parents and my teachers were wise enough to let this be my complete decision. A PP’s description of their daughter as knowing her own mind resonated with me - that’s exactly how I was.

I totally get why you wanted him to go to Oxford, I wanted my dd to go too, she was all set for Oxford when she started A levels but once she started looking around unis she fell in love with another uni and after that she kind of gave up working hard towards A’s as the uni she likes was offering BBC which was pretty easy for her to achieve without putting in the effort. I wasn’t happy but kept my mouth shut and let her make her own mistakes/choices. She achieved ABC and secured the uni she wanted to go too. Yes I was disappointed, mainly because she gave up trying to achieve A’s. She had offers from several Russell group uni’s and turned them down.

She’s now been at uni since September and is doing well. Who knows if she made the right choice but it was her choice to make and not mine.

Let him go to York next year, his happiness is more important than going to a uni he hates.

I went to York for English and loved, loved it! I was an academic high flyer (one in my s level) but was really attracted by the very intellectually wide-ranging course at York. Long-term - well I am now a Director in humanitarian organisation. I have many Oxbridge grads in my team, some of whom are doing quite "admin-y" type roles and none of whom particularly impress me tbh. I would say the inter-disciplinary nature of the York course set me up for working in a very complex environment. My contemporaries at York include a film director, a well-recognised actor and someone who ran a tech giant. He will dine out on his story of leaving Oxford and shows he is a free-thinker.

You'll have to let him make that choice, and York sounds like a better fit for him and he's old enough to make that choice, you can't make someone of that age do you what you say. Let go.

At least he won't be one of those people that drops into conversation that he went to Oxford within five minutes of a conversation. I'm know there are many brilliant people who go there but the one's I've come across at uni and work seem so wedded to that identity, dropping it into conversation at any opportunity, and maybe that is what he is rebelling against.

Not sure why I wrote one's - my son was asking me about bacon sandwiches and I got distracted...

Agree with pp saying starting in the first year rather than transferring into second would be easier socially and academically

People transfer between unis or drop out and start again. It happens. You made the wrong call with the best of intentions, I’m sure he’ll forgive and respect a sincere apology between adults.

Oxford definitely doesn’t suit everyone who gets in - a friend of mine, who got a 1st, so was definitely not out of her depth academically, always said she felt jealous of her sibling who seemed to have a lot more fun at their university than my friend did at Oxford. I always felt my friend was working too hard and joining in with the social side of things too little, though, so there was a fair bit of her responding to the environment by working harder than necessary, rather than Oxford necessarily obliging all its students to work too hard to have the time to have fun. I don’t think an alternative university would have had that effect on her, though, so she was doubtless right that she would have been happier elsewhere. I, on the other hand, couldn’t think of anywhere I would have been happier than Oxford, so horses for courses.

As for nerds - there may well be more nerds at Oxford than elsewhere, but it is certainly not the case that you have to be a nerd to enjoy Oxford, so if your ds is only meeting nerds, then he’s doing something wrong! And on the other side of the coin, I do also have friends who were at different universities who were aggravated by people they had to do group work with (or share halls with) who patently had no genuine academic interest whatsoever in their subject, were lazy, left others in the group to do all the work, and only wanted to have a good time. No doubt York will have its fair share of both nerds and aggravating party animals, so I would say better for your ds to start again as a fresher so that he has a chance to get to know the other people on his course, so that he can know his course mates as well as possible before he has to live in a house with any of them or do any projects with any of them (and have some of the freshers fun he thinks he has missed out on). Otherwise he may find himself paired up with the people nobody else wants to ever have to work with (and then finding out why), and not finding it easy to meet people of like mind, because friendships have been made already.

The one thing I do not understand about your post, though, is your reference to “contact time.” No way will he ever get as much contact time elsewhere as he gets in Oxford with its tutorial system. If he thinks he is not getting enough contact time, he will hate any other university, particularly at the moment, with all the university lecturer strikes. He is currently getting massively more value for money from his tuition fees at Oxford than he would be getting from York, as the tutorials are generally unaffected by strikes, unlike lecture-based courses. At least Oxford still offers lectures, but they are not actually compulsory - better than lectures being the method of tuition and month after month of strikes.

I went to york, my brother went to oxford. We are completely different people who need different things from the city we live in, I loved york! It’s a fab place to study and live.

It's weird that he doesn't feel able to have fun at Oxford. DH and I did nothing but row and drink for 2.5 years solid (then had a pretty shit 6 months to pay for it, but we both got 2:1s).

From what pp have written on this thread it sounds more pressured these days @2reefsin30knots.

Were terms always this short?

Mine refused to even apply to Oxford or Cambridge as the course he wants to do is mainly theory based. Much more hands on elsewhere (engineering). Fair enough!

I'd offer to help get him to York if he can make the move.

That's a shame. We had a lovely time!

If it was October or November I would say stick it out for longer before deciding, but as it is now February, I think your DS has given it is a fair go. Oxford is not for everyone, nothing wrong with that.

I get it, OP. I went to the other one. Fabulous opportunities, great lifestyle, lovely rooms. I made great friends and was pretty happy there. Worked hard, played hard. There wasn't the drinking culture that so many students look for (I know, I live in a university city). Horses for courses.

I chose a 'top' university which was on reflection a bad choice for me. I left after the first term and reapplied to what was always my first choice. I was happy with that decision and had a great time. I'd let him start again in September if he is unable to transfer, which hopefully he will be. By the way it isn't your fault, of course you were encouraging him to apply to Oxford. Kids change university course all the time.

I really think that parents of 18 year old dc need to step back and allow their dc to pick what is right for them. Give them guidance/advice but remember they are now adults and the ones having to actually live/work with the decision made and if they hate it they won't excel but if they love it they will.

It's interesting that people think that Oxford is more pressure now. I was there almost 40 years ago and 2 essays a week was standard even then. Though to be fair, my subject had a reputation for intensity - we used to laugh at what a doss it was in certain other subjects that I will not name here...