DS wants to drop out of Oxford - and it's largely my fault

[Distressedstudent]

My DS is a fresher at Oxford and not enjoying it one bit - the intensive work load, the lack of contact hours, the general 'nerdiness' of it. He had wanted to go to York but, as he was predicted (and got) 4 x A star, we urged him to apply to Oxford (where we went - he had no intention of applying) and then, when he got his offer, to firm it. He very reluctantly agreed after talking to his teachers who said he'd be nuts to turn down Oxford, even though his heart was set on York.

He sees his friends from school having a blast at other universities whereas he has his nose to the grind at Oxford. He is now planning to see his Director of Studies and to see if York will take him from September (to read the same humanities course). He is not interested in my advice as DH and I 'got it wrong' and gave him 'duff advice' (his words).

I am not sure if I am up to replying to anyone kind enough to offer their thoughts because I feel so miserable/disappointed/guilty on his behalf.

I would say that you need to accept that maybe the advice you gave him initially, although well meant, wasn't the best, and you should support him in his decision to leave Oxford and go to York. We all make mistakes - parents included. He will be feeling miserable and disappointed that it hasn't worked out, so he needs your support now to follow his own path.

You are right to support him of course as you were also right to encourage him to aim high in the first place. Oxford isn't the be all and end all.

Unless he is so desperately miserable that he feels he has to leave right now I would encourage him to hold tight for a bit longer. This is well known as the most miserable time of year for students. Also has he missed application dates to apply to York again?

Drop out by all means but try to get the new plan in place first.... just incase it isn't a possibility any more.

as he was predicted (and got) 4 x A star, we urged him to apply to Oxford (where we went - he had no intention of applying) and then, when he got his offer, to firm it. He very reluctantly agreed after talking to his teachers who said he'd be nuts to turn down Oxford, even though his heart was set on York.

It's hard because is it this pushing sent him in the wrong direction or is he still not quiet settled and by end of year he will be.

I might suggest DS, if he does as well as predicted ,looks at our old university - not Oxbridge but in his area of of the best n country wanting 3 A* - as we loved it but did different subjects but I wouldn't push as he's not us - he is off his own bat is taking a school tip to look at Oxford uni.

We have with DD1 place practical limits on distance - and then suggest older universities and look at how well regarding course is and that it gets her where she wants but keeps as many door open as possible - that gave a short list with her grades and she visited them and chose.

It has to be their choice that they are invested and fired up about - even so she may decide it wrong and try and blame us.

He is not interested in my advice as DH and I 'got it wrong' and gave him 'duff advice' (his words).

He has options, he has people to talk to about this and he's taking control of his future and deciding on best path for him.

It's a recoverable misstep - only a year lost - and this age they start not to listen to parents anyway.

I did this before University choice mainly as I felt my parents had steered me wrong with A-levels - wrong location for me though they did have practical reasons - and wrong subjects and when I realise it was a mistake wouldn't allow changes. I saw things they didn't with uni choices getting around with no car issues as they drove everywhere - but did feel steered away from perhaps a better subject area though-then did post graduate course that put me in that area.

I don't hate them - they did the best the could and being miserable during A-level meant I was more determined to make my choices going forward and I still made mistakes.

My DH went to Oxford and he enjoyed it to some extent, but has often said he probably should have gone to a different university. But he could never have said "no I don't want to go to Oxford", his parents would have been angry because it's meant to be the pinnacle etc (and they would have lost their bragging rights). But if it really doesn't suit you...

I had an offer to go to Cambridge but am now quite relieved I didn't go there, I don't think the tutor system would have suited me, I am not resilient enough. But I can just imagine if I had actually got a place and then turned it down - my parents would have gone mad.

Therefore, the biggest gift you can give to your son is to accept his decision and be happy that he wants to go to York. And for what it's worth, it is a fantastic city and university. My DH and I met here on a post-grad course, and our son is now in his second year there.

Your son is 18 plus years old. He is an adult. He doesn’t need your permission to do anything now.
His choice, his decisions.

He might regret it. Not many of us get to do something remarkable in our lives. And getting a degree from Oxford, one of the most famous universities in the world, really is remarkable.

I'd say don't rush into anything. He hasn't been there long and it takes time to feel settled. I think that a lot of students find that uni isn't what they were expecting. Enjoying York isn't guaranteed. Maybe focus on how to improve life at Oxford.

My only input is that I would try to persuade him to finish this academic year at Oxford so he has done the “Oxford experience”. So he then got out of it what he wanted and made up his mind. Then he transfers to York. In the future, he can then just talk about it as a lived learning experience and compare and contrast the two courses etc.

I am saying this as someone who regularly interviews trainees for training contracts (law). I wouldn’t be worried about someone switching if they can speak intelligently about it and learn from the experience and still have gotten the most out of it in the short time frame. If he learns and matures from it, no harm done.

A final word if caution, if he us really struggling with the lack of contact time that is unlikely to be better at York if it’s English or history. Perhaps he should consider a change of subject to something more directed.

Of course, but it’s his parents who will be funding the change. He would get the extra year but that means an extra year of parental contribution too.

My 5 could not be bothered to apply to Oxbridge (I didn't go either) but all their cousins so far are there. If any of my children ever say I am to blame for XYZ as I am sure they have tried over the years I always make it clear they have agency.In the example here the boy chose to go - no one forced him. He should probably try to stick it out until the summer in case he changes his mind as why waste a whole academic year and start again at a worse place?

Yeah that's a beautiful and rare thing and OP genuinely, hats off to you for raising a kid who is able to think like this. He's going to look back and totally understand why you pushed him toward Oxford, and I am sure he will get a place at York. I'd throw yourself behind York now.

I did an open day with DD at Cambridge University and she just didn't like it. Of course its a nice prestigious uni to attend, but it wasn't for her and I respected her decision.

She didn't like the outdated accommodation, compared to the others places like Warwick, Nottingham, Birmingham that she did open days at.

I wouldn't want her miserable for 3 years and it's about her not me. Her teachers also encouraged her to apply, but she's a child that knows her own mind very well and is not easily persuaded.

It's not just about the academics, its also the university experience.

I feel like a lot of posters here don't really understand the nature in which Oxford is different to most other universities - the shorter terms, the tutorials, the late nights. Some people also cram in drama and clubbing but why force that upon yourself when you can do it with a bit more balance elsewhere. Yes being an Oxford graduate is prestigious, but it depends what you want to do as to what doors it opens over other unis.

My friend did medicine at Cambridge. Clever girl, said it made her feel stupid (she was still high achieving there, not struggling). Switched to Imperial for clinical studies; not only was atmosphere better for her but she saw more variety in cases.

He will recognise your acceptance of your mistake and you will still have a strong supportive relationship going forward. Comfort yourself with the fact that it could have suited him as it suited you and you could have been doing the right thing persuading him to go. Nothing has been lost except some time and money. Luckily time is something he has plenty of right now, a year learning more about himself and gaining new experiences is nothing in the greater scheme of things.

DH and I are university academics; we have attended one of the 'ancients.' Nothing is more upsetting than having to 'drag' a miserable young person through a degree they hate because they know they are in the wrong place but don't want to disappoint their DPs. I saw another poster say that OP 'did the best they could.' It was never about the OP and her partner's choice bragging rights It was always about DS. OP does need to 'let' him go to another institution. He is an adult, OP needs to not judge/comment on his choice

Is he doing many social activities? I felt basically the same, didn't really want to go, kind of hated the general vibe of it - BUT then I found music societies, started playing and doing loads of music, found my friends and spent more time having extra curricular fun than studying....

But, if he's tried that and wants to leave, it's not the end of the world - I honestly think I got mostly neuroticism, anxiety and inability to take criticism from being there. Gave me more issues than skills!

(But I did have a LOT of fun, and made some awesome friends, so was worth staying for me).

Let him go to York.

I may be biased - I refused to apply for Oxbridge and enjoyed a global career in my chosen subject anyway.
Depending on his area of study, if he is academic there is always the option of going back to Oxford for a Masters or PhD.

Honestly, you don't need to feel bad at all. I messed up my uni choices because my parents gave me no guidance at all (not their fault - we don't have a family history of uni, and they honestly didn't know how to advise me).

Your son is clearly very very bright, and you haven't done badly to encourage him to go to the best possible university. It's find that he is resetting it now, and seeing if he can go to York after all, rather than floundering at Oxford and dropping out or just having a shit time for 4 years - it shows resilience and confidence as well as brightness!

So your DC will see out Oxford until June? He may yet change his mind. But Oxbridge like a lot unis have changed a lot over the last thirty years - I remember turning in one essay a week, now it's two and a lot more rigorous and given the shorter Oxbridge terms the time to party, play sport, act, debate etc is much reduced. I'm surprised contact time is reduced post-Covid since tutorials were always one of the USPs but blame the lack of tenure (research or die) and pay at lecturer/tutor level. Just support him the change to a good university - and try to understand his thinking.

@Distressedstudent
I'd say (as a current University lecturer - and a former drop out from my first University myself!) if he moves to York he would definitely be best to go into the first year, despite the extra costs.

Both socially so he makes new friends with peers all in the same boat, rather than parachuting into the second year when many friendship groups will already be formed. But also academically so he gets used to the York (rather than Oxford) way of doing things - expectations, formative assignments, etc before year 2, where grades start to count towards his final degree classification.

You don't have other choice than accepting it. He is not ditching Oxford to become unemployed, he just wants different (also good) university. You've done good job already, he had excellent A-level results, be proud, because he's doing great anyway, even though he doesn't enjoy current choice. My parents pushed me (education wise) to do something I didn't want and my mum said she regretted it instantly, because she saw how depressed and anxious I became. At the end of day he needs to live his life, you can't do it for him.

I understand where you are coming from but in reverse . DS considered applying to Cambridge and was encouraged by the school ( looked great on their records ) but DP & I were worried he’d have the same issues as your son . We gently voiced them but said we’d support him whatever and he decided on a Russel Group Uni in the end .
He enjoyed his Uni experience despite lockdown & doesn’t regret it . One of his friends did same as your son and transferred to my DS Uni at end of his first year . It didn’t hold him back , he has a great job now!
The only advice I have is let DS make his own decision and be there to support him. You acted in your DS best interests so try not to feel guilty .

I have one at Oxbridge, it's the right place for him, but it was totally his choice. York is great, let it be a lesson to all.

If he isn't happy he should change to York (if there is a place for him).
Many moons ago I applied to York and Oxford and some other universities for a science subject. The interview at York was before Oxford - I absolutely loved York, really liked the lecturers, thought the research was interesting and also interested in the industrial scholarships with placements they had at the time.
I sat the Oxford entrance exams, then went for the interview and absolutely hated it. I didn't like the vibe of the college dining hall, I didn't feel at home with the type of students who were there, I didn't click with the tutors. And I remember saying at dinner (in front of one of the tutors) to another student who had asked if people had offers from somewhere else yet and I said I had one from York and had loved it.
I was rejected by that college and then pooled and sent to another for interview but by that time I think I was not showing the interest they were looking for in going to Oxford.
The school were not amused when I was rejected. (I don't think my Dad was either but my Mam and I had both expected it). In those days independent schools used to phone up and ask for feedback. Apparently they said I had done very well in the entrance exams but that they felt I didn't really want to go to Oxford and other candidates had been more enthusiastic. They said that if I was to rethink and defer and apply the next year the application would be looked on "very favourably". The school then put me under massive pressure to reapply but I refused.
I went to York. I loved it. I had a lot of really great opportunities and everything turned out fine in the end.
If someone is saying Oxford is not right for them (and they were saying that all along actually) and that they would rather change and go somewhere else then they should do that.

Good in your DS for realising what he, as an adult wants and being prepared to achieve it even in the face of parents disappointed he isn’t living his life exactly how they lived their lives - well done him.

You both had your time and went to Oxford. He’s (hopefully) going to have his time in York (great university)