DS wants to drop out of Oxford - and it's largely my fault

[Distressedstudent]

My DS is a fresher at Oxford and not enjoying it one bit - the intensive work load, the lack of contact hours, the general 'nerdiness' of it. He had wanted to go to York but, as he was predicted (and got) 4 x A star, we urged him to apply to Oxford (where we went - he had no intention of applying) and then, when he got his offer, to firm it. He very reluctantly agreed after talking to his teachers who said he'd be nuts to turn down Oxford, even though his heart was set on York.

He sees his friends from school having a blast at other universities whereas he has his nose to the grind at Oxford. He is now planning to see his Director of Studies and to see if York will take him from September (to read the same humanities course). He is not interested in my advice as DH and I 'got it wrong' and gave him 'duff advice' (his words).

I am not sure if I am up to replying to anyone kind enough to offer their thoughts because I feel so miserable/disappointed/guilty on his behalf.

Also I'm really surprised at the contact time thing. At Cambridge I had twice per week supervisions (sometimes 1 on 1 and max 3 to 1).

Also, York is a brilliant uni anyway.

You are right to support him if he is determined to move but two things have really stood out to me from the OP's posts.

The contact hours - if he will get more contact time at York than the weekly Oxford 1:2 tutorials I will eat my hat.

'Fun' - York is a notoriously sheltered campus university and honestly probably quieter than Oxford. It is NOT a party university and it would not be my choice if a really active social life is his priority.

We all want are children to do amazing and push them to do their best, my Dad was a single parent and pushed me in the opposite direction of doing what I wanted to do and it backfired as I dropped out and ended up doing neither.
whilst you have his best interest at heart, there’s no point him staying if he’s unhappy so let him know it’s ok

This is EXACTLY the story of my DH.

He dropped out of Oxford after one term, went to York, had a wonderful time and made lifelong friends, and got a First and a DPhil there. The lack of the 'oxbridge' cachet has made no difference to his life.
He has never regretted dropping out, it was absolutely the right decision for him.

Is it even a question of ' letting him?' He has made the decision and he is an adult now, you need to accept ' his decision'.

I mean Oxford will never not look good on the CV but you really have to want to go there to make the study worthwhile

You chat force him , but this being said the financial fallout of this pior be his to deal with . Changing universities is expensive and he should understand it comes with repercussions.
I admit I would be very disappointed in my child was to switch Oxford for York based on simply having more fun .

I talk to posh people like l talk to anyone else. I don’t need to learn it.

Let him go to York .. Oxford isn’t for everyone and Uni is about social growth as much as academic … I know it’s amazing that he got into Oxford but York is fab too … sooner he moves the better xxx

I don’t know why people are now accusing the OP’s DS of being a hedonistic ne’er do well. He obviously just wants a slighter gentler pace academically speaking. That shows so much maturity. As a PP poster has said if he wanted bright lights he wouldn’t be going to York.
I agree with the posters who talk about the timing not being right for some young people. I would never have coped with Oxbridge at 18. I was too used to being fully immersed in youth culture (aka going to the Hacienda several times a week). A few years later when the opportunity presented itself I was quite happy with formal dining and polite academic chatter.

I was in a very similar situation with my son who went to LSE rather than Liverpool. He had pretty serious mental health issues in his first year but stuck it out as as his friend was about to start at another London Uni the following year. His issues were more around loneliness, homesickness and not fitting in than the work, as he didn't do anything else other than gaming alone in his room (social support for students at LSE is notoriously shite). In second year, lockdown hit and he came home which pretty much sorted things for him. Had it not been for lockdown and the friend moving there, I don't think he would have stuck it out and it would have been a relief to me for him to have left LSE for Liverpool as I was so worried about him for a long time. He often reflects still on how crap his Uni experience was. Funnily enough he's at a new RG uni doing a masters now, and he loves it and has made tons of friends. "Elite" universities can be tough and I think students who struggle are often thrown to the wolves. If I were you, I would reiterate that you/ school had his best interests at heart when you steered him towards Oxford but that you have listened and you will support his move to York (which is a great uni btw).

Essentially OP the answer is that it isn't really any of your business and your son should choose what he thinks is right. He's an adult now and will need to start making adult decisions at some point, this feels like a good time.

I don't blame you for swaying him towards Oxford at all, you're right in that it COULD really help him, but anyone who has worked in senior positions will tell you they've seen Oxbridge graduates flame out in careers like any other student so it's no guarantee.

What you did is totally understandable, OP. Oxbridge freshers often get the wobblies just before "going up" simply because of early-onset imposter syndrome. It is quite correct in those cases to remind them they didn't get their place by accident, and that, since they cleared all the selection hurdles Oxbridge puts up, they are more than up to the standard academically.

Therefore, nine times out of ten, when a student with an Oxbridge place is super stressed about their first term, they just need a little more self-belief, and if this can come from the parents, so much the better.

I had the same before starting at Cambridge, yet had a great experience. My DS2 on the other hand showed no signs of freshers' jitters before starting at Cambridge some thirty years later.

No matter how he expressed his misgivings, you were not to know that it was not imposter syndrome but something more real with your DS.

Although I have personally seen how Oxbridge opens doors, I also believe in the importance of having a great time at uni, something Oxbridge students these days rarely have the time for. So yes, York will probably be right for him, as it turns out, but you were not to know this.

Finally, as has been pointed out, there's a marked difference between a first and a 2:1 these days, and the class of degree is as important as the name on the certificate. So if York means more fun and a better class of degree, in terms of his future prospects, nobody could argue with that.

Please be kinder to yourself!

Ha - this has reminded me of an open event at York that I went to in sixth form with some friends. Literally every conversation about social lives included the phrase 'and it's only 20 minutes from Leeds!'. It was a fantastic advert for Leeds, not so much for York.

Check the accommodation provision carefully. York have started putting some undergrads in halls in Hull.

You did what you thought was best, it hasn’t worked out so now he decides to move - nothing wrong with that. It’s one of those things where if he hadn’t tried Oxford and then York didn’t go to plan you’d be thinking you should have encouraged him more because you realised what a good opportunity it could have been. Feel sorry for him that it hasn’t worked out but don’t really guilty for doing what you thought could have best thing for him.

I think Hull was a temporary measure because they were so oversubscribed after the teacher-assessed A levels. They put people in Leeds accommodation too - where they probably had a fab nightlife!

DD shared with privately educated "posh people" at Newcastle

don’t know why people are now accusing the OP’s DS of being a hedonistic ne’er do well. He obviously just wants a slighter gentler pace academically speaking.

I totally agree. I think he just wants something less pressured, and time to hang out in the student union bar/time to just be.

I was going to raise exactly these points. No shame in him moving if that's the right choice but is he absolutely sure that York is right? He won't get more contact hours and it doesn't have much of a nightlife. Does he have a friend already there? Can he take advantage of the short Oxford terms and go up to stay a few nights at the end of Hilary while it's still term-time in York, just to get a feel for the place?

Well done him on going, despite not wanting to, and having the balls to try to change direction.

If he wants to go to York and can transfer then let him do that. He's smart and has a mind of his own so start letting him use it.

There are two lessons here...
Not getting a degree from Oxford is not the end of the world
Controlling mothers are not attractive.

I almost made this decision as well!

I saw my friends at other unis having a great time, clubbing, living it up, and I was so jealous. My parents talked me out of leaving Oxford and I’m so glad they did. It would have been an immature decision and I think I’d always have regretted losing the opportunity.

Can he wait at least until the end of his first year before making a decision? Perhaps he just hasn’t found his people yet. After I found mine, I had plenty of fun- it just isn’t handed to you every night like it is at some other unis. I’d say it’s quite unusual to leave- I don’t think I recall anyone who did it. Which implies that it usually gets better.

I’d also be nervous about it becoming a defining decision for him. no one loves to talk about oxbridge as much as people who got in and didn’t go!

I don’t think you should feel guilty, though. Most parents would have advised their child as you did.

If your son is truly unhappy then it should be his decision to move from Oxford to York (so long as York accept of course). He will probably do better academically with a more balanced life style suited to him if he moves to York. He did well to get to Oxford but that is not the be all and end of. Support him in his move, he will be a far better, rounded person for it; and, you know, that his mental health and happiness is of the utmost importance.

DD chose Reading over Cambridge partly because she preferred the course content and partly because she wanted to enjoy the uni experience and she thought Cambridge wouldn’t give her that. She then went to York for her Masters and loved it there too. She had friends who went to Oxford but one of them actually switched to Warwick because he found it a bit stifling.

Having fun does not have to mean partying . My ds who works very hard btw is at a university commonly described as being full of ‘Oxbridge rejects’ doing a humanities subject. He is very self directed, which I think you have to be at a heavy research based university. Not everyone has this skill at 18, I certainly didn’t . Dh did though as does ds.

However despite working hard he manages two pretty big musical and other extra curriculars and a social life. I think in retrospect at Oxford he would have spent most of his time working and worrying about the work. I know there are plenty who do manage to do lots of extras but the majority of his friends at O and C say that one extra / club /interest is all they can cope with . Interestingly of the 4 from his year who went , only one seems to be really ‘thriving’ , it’s definitely not for everyone.