DS wants to drop out of Oxford - and it's largely my fault

[Distressedstudent]

My DS is a fresher at Oxford and not enjoying it one bit - the intensive work load, the lack of contact hours, the general 'nerdiness' of it. He had wanted to go to York but, as he was predicted (and got) 4 x A star, we urged him to apply to Oxford (where we went - he had no intention of applying) and then, when he got his offer, to firm it. He very reluctantly agreed after talking to his teachers who said he'd be nuts to turn down Oxford, even though his heart was set on York.

He sees his friends from school having a blast at other universities whereas he has his nose to the grind at Oxford. He is now planning to see his Director of Studies and to see if York will take him from September (to read the same humanities course). He is not interested in my advice as DH and I 'got it wrong' and gave him 'duff advice' (his words).

I am not sure if I am up to replying to anyone kind enough to offer their thoughts because I feel so miserable/disappointed/guilty on his behalf.

And given the sixth form timescale we are asking children to make decisions with adult implications at a very hard time without much life experience. Parents and teachers have to be part of that conversation

The timescale is exactly the same as it always was. Being part of the conversation is very different to pushing someone in another direction when they’ve already decided what they want to do as in this case.

we are asking children to make decisions with adult implications at a very hard time without much life experience.

Indeed, and I really feel for the Covid generation.

But - 2 1/2 years isn't a very long time even if it's not the perfect choice. And in real life there are no perfect choices, we just grind our way through it.

Perhaps parents, schools and universities sell the idea of it being a wonderful formative time far too much - 'the best time of your life!' - as well as the sense that people can coast through without too much work, without worrying about money, and with an effortless, anxiety-free social life. That was never the case across the board, and much less so now.

I wish we could communicate better to young people that so long as they're roughly doing the right things, they won't go far wrong. Things will generally turn out more or less similarly. It's like the Tim Minchin song 'If I didn't have you'.

@Topseyt123 I guess I think it's a bit arrogant to expect York to want him seeing as he's obviously more interested in partying than studying.

@mellicauli That's really unnecessary, no evidence that's the case at all.

@Catnary "
I did a law degree at Cambridge, but a 2:1 and still had loads of time for fun. I think you did it wrong!"

I didn't do law!

It's great that he is able to say that this isn't working for him and needs to change. He could easily feel he has to stay at Oxford for a hundred different reasons not least parental pressure. You've raised someone confident enough to speak up and know his own mind and he will do brilliantly wherever he goes I'm sure.

It was a general comment. The people I was having fun with were doing the whole gamut of subjects and the vast majority did fine academically.

"I'd argue the work ethic to be considering Oxbridge stems from Primary

@goodbyestranger Blimey. Poor kids whose parents actually believe this!"

By that @goodbyestranger I meant that the kids who end up applying for Oxbridge are largely the ones paying attention in class, listening to stories, learning times tables and putting their hands up to answer questions. It must be a rare applicant that's bumped along with minimal effort for over a decade then put a spurt on in sixth form.

Support him in changing his course to York. That is where he has his heart set on and because of that he will flourish! Hopefully they could accept him sooner than September.
If he is not happy at Oxford, then he will not do as well as he could. The pressure will get too much.
Don't feel guilty. Just because Oxford suited you and your husband, doesn't mean it is the right thing for your son.
The best thing you can do now is support his decision, afterall it is his journey he is commencing.

He is capable of making his own choices. You tried, it didn't work. Let him go to York and love his Uni life, as he should be doing.

You’ve just made that up.

I went to Oxford - I wanted to go to SOAS like a PP but they had a policy of turning down anyone with an Oxbridge offer.

If it doesn't suit you, it is a miserable experience. The work load is nuts, the pressure is something else and it can feel like everyone else went to a tiny handful of private or super selective state schools where they at least had some models of what to expect. The whole Oxbridgeness of it is hard to comprehend if you haven't been in it, although some colleges are better than others.

Let him go to York and be happy. It has nothing to do with being work-shy, it's about being able to thrive, and you should be proud of having a son with his head well screwed on at this age.

Let him leave but I would strongly advise he starts again in the first year so he has the Freshers experience and makes friend. If he goes in at the second year all the friendships will be formed abd he’ll have a shit time

Definitely go in as a fresher. He’ll have a shit time as a second year as all friendship groups will be formed

I wish my parents had encouraged me to go to university… any university ! If anything they put me off going 😕

You did what you thought was best, also what his teachers thought best, it didn’t work out but don’t beat yourself up about it.

Thinking about it last summer we met the family of one of DHs friends. Their DD had been in Durham for two terms but decided it wasn't for her so she had dropped out and was going to start at Newcastle for the coming term.
She seemed imminently sensible and her decision well thought through. No point in being miserable for another 2 years, or dropping out when an alternative exists.

This. I think this simply sounds like part of the trials and tribulations of parenting; you naturally felt that guiding him towards Oxford was the right thing to do, and imagine the guilt you would probably feel if he'd had that option, turned it down and gone to York then regretted it!

There's no perfect answer here; you would have felt stress and uncertainty either way, I'm sure. He's also not wrong for wanting to pursue what feels right to him, and it seems you're on board with that. It's just a life thing. Try not to get consumed with guilt and regret. He's had an experience of Oxford, and can actually in future say he studied at Oxford and turned it down! Quite a flex 😄

There's nothing in OPs post to indicate whether her DS has his head screwed on well and maturely or whether he is unhappy and thinks - possibly incorrectly - that a move will be the panacea. He certainly seems to be dishing out blame ('duff advice'), on the face of it. That doesn't immediately suggest maturity and insight - though it could simply be a fair comment, depending on just how much pressure OP originally applied

I would urge finishing the year with the promise that if he feels the same at the end of the year, then I would support 💯 to go to york as fresher in 2023/2024

This would show a willingness on his part to honour a commitment, he got a space someone else cried over not getting. He's clearly super intelligent & the first few terms/months of anything will be hard.

But mental health & fun is important too. Thus I would insist on a compromise & I would ensure that compromise means he keeps working to his potential for rest of first year. Best of both worlds.

Because prestige and looks are more important than anything else isn’t it 😂

We disagree on this because I think it sounds like a rather mature assessment from an 18 year old. I teach them, and being analytical about advice given, not personal, nor contorting to shape themselves to the parent's wish seems in line with everything the OP says: that she trusts her son's thinking.

Some people hate Oxford, it's better being somewhere he can thrive. Awful things happen during finals and if he wasn't enjoying the fun parts he definitely wouldn't enjoy that!!

I feel for your son. I got an offer from Cambridge based on their entrance exam. I remember how much I smiled when I got the letter saying I didn't get the grades needed and knew I could go to the London uni I much preferred without wondering what if. I am still in academia now and doing well. Good for you for supporting your son to change courses. York is a great place for Uni!

I went to Cambridge and hated my first term. I settled in though. I wouldn't say it was the best time of my life but it paid dividends for the future. It was the sensible decision to stay for me.

Let him go to York. I was an academic flier and opted to go to Nottingham Uni for my first degree instead of Cambridge or Oxford - my parents were happy that it meant being a bit closer to home! - and then went to Cambridge for my PhD, when I'd already had a taste of freedom and was more mature and ready for the academic challenge - I absolutely loved it. He might want to do a Masters or PhD and could then give Oxford another go?
I found that for undergraduates in Cambridge at least, life was a bit too skewed towards academic rigor and it didn't necessarily create balanced individuals e.g. many get to their final year without having needed to clean their own rooms or make their own meals, thanks to the college cleaners and hall dinners. The graduate students experience the best of both worlds - more independence while also benefitting from world-class teaching and research.