Oxbridge 2023 support; it's offer month. Good luck all.

[Riverpebble]

New thread for the start of the Oxbridge offers.

DD’s only just received an email with loads of information from her college yesterday. Offer holders day in a few weeks and a zoom thing for fellow course applicants later this week. Haven’t really been following this thread but saw it in active. Haven’t seen her course mentioned but don’t want to say as outing!

Can I jump on your thread to ask about DD in Year 12. Oxbridge is all she has ever wanted for as long as I can remember. Early indications are that she is capable, is sitting her Maths A Level this time and got an A* in her mocks.

She turned around the other day and said she'd changed her mind, she didn't want to fight for it anymore and she doesn't want to take time away from her A Levels to do the extra work it requires to apply.

I've always secretly hoped that she would change her mind and gently tried to drop hints about "normal" uni life at other places because I worried it would be too much for her, she wouldn't fit in, she wouldn't enjoy it...but now she has, I'm worried she will regret it...

Has anyone been through this stage...not quite sure which way to go with her...

@daffodilandtulip when you say doing extra work to apply for Oxbridge, do you mean preparing for tests such as TMUA and MAT etc?

I've been chatting to DS about it all and he's on board with the extra work to prepare for the tests. He likes a challenge and to push himself and even if he doesn't get an Oxbridge offer I think the knowledge gained through test prep will stand him in good stead for his degree wherever he goes.

Yes - she thinks it will add more value to use the time to revise/study her current subjects.

I think DD FOUND THAT THE test prep itself was good revision for her A levels, if that makes a different in your thinking.

Will your daughter's school give her the support she needs to do well in the tests? Are her current teachers good? It may be there are some gaps due to the disruption during Covid and she feels she needs to put in more effort to nail the high grades in the A levels.

My DD withdrew from her Oxford application two weeks before her test. She had left it to the last minute because in her heart of hearts she didn't want to apply in the first place. It's a pity she only realised at such a late stage, so at least your daughter is giving it proper thought now.

I agree that preparing for the tests can definitely help in A level preparation but if there are gaps in learning, it's going to be a tall order. You need a concrete understanding of year 12 to attempt the tests.

Good luck to your daughter.

DS did a few past papers (3? I think ) that were available online for engineering entrance i.e. few hours and read through a few study aid revision cards. But that was revision for Imperial entrance papers as well - so would have been potentially done regardless. Maybe papers and cards = 3x3hrs and cards 1hr. Took a few hours (2?) To write and submit the additional part about why Cambridge . The personal statement I reckon took the longest (a few redrafts) however that was needed for wherever he applied and was why he loved the idea of Engineering degree. In someways having to do early ucas entrance was probably great as it got the UCAS statement out of the way to be free to study ( if normal ucas submission he may have been constantly redrafting 😉😁.

Opps each past paper set was 2hr . So 2x3 hours , maybe 1 hr total he spent going through and checking them all. Physics and math tutor website always good.

Thank you for your comments, very helpful to add to our conversation. It's either engineering or maths she's looking at so it's good to know how long things took.

"Physics and maths tutor" website has past entrance papers for Cambridge engineering . He did last 3 years worth. There are 2 for each year called section 1 and 2. Also has notes and answers 😀. Free as well !

@daffodilandtulip I think my gut feeling is that you should be led by her. As we saw on this thread this year and every year, it's a gruelling process that is most likely to end in disappointment. It's not so much that it causes lots of extra work - the kind of student who's a decent shout for Oxbridge is likely to already be working fairly hard and will carry on working fairly hard at the uni they end up in. It's more that it's quite intense and emotional, and rejection is a kick in the teeth at a crucial stage in Y13. If I were you I would gently test whether it's a thoughtful decision (as opposed to kneejerk fear of failure), but if she's thought about it and made up her mind I wouldn't push back too much. A degree in maths or engineering will be a considerable feather in her cap and she can always look at Oxbridge for postgrad if that appeals to her at that stage.

Before she makes a final decision (which she won't have to do until October) get her to do some research into which other unis use Oxbridge maths entrance test scores for maths/compsci admissions (this isn't so relevant for engineering). For maths admissions, Imperial expects uk students to have taken one of the Oxbridge maths tests I think - MAT (Oxford) or TMUA (Cambridge), both in the autumn of Y13 - and lots of other very competitive unis look a bit more kindly on candidates who have decent scores in them. If she works out that she will need to take the test anyway, it might factor in to her thinking.

Also worth being clear, for Cambridge Maths, that candidates with an offer have to take STEP exams alongside their A Levels and around 50% of them end up having their offers withdrawn on results day, which has always sounded horrible to me!

Preparing for STEP, the maths entrance papers for Cambridge, really is a lot of extra work. One of my son's teachers said it would be like an extra A level when he was just starting year 12 and that has proved to be right. Now that he's in year 13, he is probably doing as much work for the step papers as for his other A levels. It's tough but he's enjoying the challenge. He also needs STEP but a grade lower for Warwick so it won't be time wasted if his score isn't high enough for Cambridge. But, in answer to your question, preparation is taking up a lot of his time and energy.

DD wouldn’t have got through the process if it hadn’t been 100% her choice to apply. Different tyoe of prep as an arts subject but she did so much background work and test papers and reading. she knows the terms at Oxbridge are intense so also wanted to assess her capability of juggling multiple assignments.

DD had deadlines for her coursework and essays at the same time as Cambridge prep and evidence submission. She went down with a cold the day after the exam and then again after the interviews. I was worried for her but also never seen her more excited, invested and motivated. I just provided TLC, DH provided his vitamin laden home made soups.

@nowheregirl yes I think the time needed is what's worrying her. I'm just worried it's a knee jerk reaction to that, rather than not actually wanting to follow her dream.

I wonder if once she's done this early A level, she might change her mind again by October.

It's good to know the reality of it. She was talking to a current Y13, who said he feels his grades dropped a mark because of the time he spent prepping for Oxbridge. I think this is worrying her. She's not averse to the pressure, but she wants good grades.

Will they accept the early A Level? Some like to see the candidates able to juggle all at once at DD’s school where they’ve had some success with Oxbridge it is normal to be taking A level maths alongside Further Maths, not one after the other?

daffodilandtulip, it may be her dreams have changed because she's looked into what life would be like at Oxford and she doesn't feel it would suit her. She might change her mind of course but I think you should give her the benefit of the doubt. She's the one who is going to have to put in the extra work and she's probably in the best position to assess what's realistic. It also depends how much support she'd get from the school. My DD was offered no support and they didn't realise she'd have to do a test!

@PettsWoodParadise this is how she's doing her maths and that's what she's heard too.

The whole "not fitting in" have been my entire concern rather than academic concerns. We're northern, single parent, poor area so I was worried about her experience based on this.

Aside from this, the college is very helpful and supportive, and they have proudly sent six students this time.

Have the six students who've got to Oxbridge been STEM students though?

I can understand your concerns about not fitting in. My father was from a working class family and went to Cambridge. He coped by absorbing himself in his work and shut himself away from the social side of things. He was one of the very few grammar school boys and was on a scholarship. Most of the kids were from Eton. He remembers wearing the wrong suit at one occasion there and the others were in black tie! He regretted going but got a first in Natural Sciences and then did a PhD there. He said he much preferred it at post graduate level.

I don't think that 'not fitting in' is the factor it used to be. For DD, there are still a lot of students she sees as rich, as her course isn't heavily populated by students from UK state schools. Financially, our income comes into the low end of middling bracket, meaning there's no margin for us to give her extra help beyond our obligations. She feels sometimes that her modest income is noticeable. But the place isn't stuffed with ex public schoolkids the way it used to be.
As to the A level maths question, it's not universal by any means, but quite common for schools and colleges to offer A level maths in Y12, then FM in Y13, so I wouldn't worry on that score.

@daffodilandtulip
Also coming on to say that doing Maths A level in year 12 is not a problem at all. The university knows that the decision to do it this way is made by the school/college and your DD will not be at a disadvantage.

My DD’s college does it this way and she has just had an offer from Oxford - although for Chemistry not Maths. A student there a couple of years ago in the same situation got an offer for Maths and Computer Science.

With regards to not fitting in I obviously don’t have first hand experience but DD (state school) has had a mentor through the Zero Gravity programme (which is fantastic by the way) who went to Oxford from a comprehensive school in the north west. She seems to be very happy and is doing amazingly well.

Engineering exams pre interview I yhink are really good for getting a hurdle out of the way before the summer (no STEP papers requested). I wouldn't worry about maths being a year early if she still has 3 a levels to sit. Which subjects is she doing?

@yoyo1234 Maths, Further Maths, Chemistry and Business.

I wouldn't worry at all. She is still doing 3 in one go . Which helps show she can cope with 3 courses at one time. Oh , please check about the absence of physics for engineering though.

Agree with checking about needing physics for engineering - DS took Maths, FM, Physics and DT (and and EPQ on a physics related topic) and they didn't even really bother offering on DT - they only cared about the first three. He is in his first year of engineering and said they had gone beyond FM content by week 5 - and he doesn't even understand half the physics now 😉- he spent most of the Christmas vacation catching up on the lectures that he didn't understand and reading around them, so I think engineering would be super hard without a physics A level.

Apparently DS told DH that when he applied to Cambridge his offer could have included step papers (I think colleges have leeway to alter offers as they see fit). I think I would be worried about step papers (from what was said above). Do they have assessments I the shape of TMUA in autumn of year 13 then as well as potentially STEP in Summer with A-levels? Seems so much fir them. I feel pleased that DS can just do his 3 A Levels and grades seem very achievable (2x A, 1x A star). I think I would be influenced by courses that get assessments over in Autumn term. DS enjoys his subjects.
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