Medicine 2023 Entry - Part 3

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Anyone out there with DC applying or reapplying for Medicine 2023, please join a friendly thread for mutual support and useful advice.

And Cardiff are still saying their selection process is 'under review'. For this year !

I'm afraid I know all to well the difficulty of getting university web site teams to update pages.

Cardiff's admissions policy is a bit clearer than the web page, although whatever software they used to make the PDF didn't work very well:

www.cardiff.ac.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0008/2655755/UG-MEDIC-School-Level-Admissions-Policy-2023_ENG.pdf

Shocked that UEA cut off seems to have increased from 2620 to 2710! I am becoming even more confident that Extra/Clearing will be very active this year as that means applicants had to be in the top 24% unless contextual. The only ones I have seen interviewing non-contextual applicants with 2700 or less are HYMS, Edge Hill, Cardiff if Welsh, St George's and, presumably, KMMS. We will see what happens at Liverpool soon, but there will not be enough people with scores over 2700 to fill all the places unless there are a lot of contextual applicants.

@Monkey2001 Do you think some places will reassess their entry criteria for next year if they find that they are all fishing in the same pond? I can't imagine that they will want to interview a lot more candidates. It already seems like a mammoth operation.

Wonder what the BMAT unis will do in 2024 if an alternative provider isn't found. Seems like they need to develop some different selection criteria. Not sure what. It is a shame the computer bmat wasn't good. Some sort of multiple choice knowledge test mght work with more planning. Drawing on similar subject domains to BMAT and would be cheaper to administer. Unis could then use one or both tests.

@Unexpecteddrivinginstructor when the GCSE grade inflation is out of the system it will help, for example at Leicester this year people needed perfect GCSEs and 2750+, but that will not be the case for 2025 entry. I think there were still too many high grades last year.

@Monkey2001 from my (limited) understanding, UEA is "odd" in that it's seen as an option for those with lower UCAT scores (more chance of an interview), but also attractive to those with very high UCAT scores on the basis that the 50% of the post-interview score is the UCAT score, so very good chance of an offer for those with high UCAT scores even if the interview goes badly.

As far as clearing is concerned, I remember from friends going through it 30+years ago that it was a bit of a scramble / free for all, usually just based on first come first served or being in the right place at the right time. Rather depressing to think that a place a medical school might come down to that for DC who have put so much work into the whole application / interview process.

I think that it is just generally depressing that the doctor I will see in ten years will largely be down to which buttons they pressed in a two hour IQ test. There should be more places like Keele and Sunderland with an emphasis on experience as well as achievement. I do understand that medicine is a rigourous subject but the thresholds seem too high at the moment and some very good candidates are being lost. Dd is a 'winner' with the current system but I don't think it is fair.

I agree. I am feeling very disheartened by the whole thing right now. DD absolutely aced the UCAT and bombed on the BMAT. I'm pretty sure that, on a different day, the results could have been reversed entirely. I'm not convinced that either is the best assessment of whether she would be a good doctor.

She had a mock interview yesterday and got wonderful feedback from the very lovely lady who interviewed her, but she might not even make it through the door at two of her choices due to the poor bmat score. I do still think that she is likely to get a place somewhere, but the whole process just doesn't seem geared to getting the best people into the profession, and I wonder how many brilliant potential doctors are lost along the way.

DD has had a rejection from Cardiff. She's sad because that was her favourite. Good ucat, great gcse's and predicted 3 x A * but not Welsh. Just waiting to hear from Southampton now. For that we are reasonably local, I wonder if helps at all, or is it just cardiff that favours locals?

Sorry to hear that @AsdaYellowTins. That's rubbish. Hope your dd bounces back from the disappointment soon.

Waiting for our first rejection here... not hopeful about either of dd's two top choices, as they were both BMAT and it didn't go well for her on the day. Ironic, really, as she did way more prep for BMAT than she did for UCAT, which went incredibly well.

Probably like a lot of students walking down this path, DD isn't really used to dealing with rejection or failure, she is one of those lucky people who usually just seems to succeed in everything. So I'm not really sure how she'll take it when it comes, but she's pretty resilient and I hope she will manage to find a positive way of dealing with it. Time will tell, I guess.

Fortunately, her top 3 choices were all pretty close in her mind, and I think she still stands a reasonably good chance with the two UCAT institutions. She has an interview at Manchester and will waiting for Barts. I hope your dd will get some positive news from Southampton soon.

Sorry to hear @AsdaYellowTins DD has been hit by the random interview generator at Cardiff. I don't think people believe it is like that until they experience it.

The truth is that, like Oxbridge, there are more people who are good applicants than there are places available, so any selection method will exclude good candidates and it really hurts when our DC miss that game of musical chairs. DS has a friend who had a Cardiff offer last year, missed an A in Chemistry by 1 mark, so is re-sitting Chemistry. He aced the only interview he had last year (full marks), but is not good enough at UCAT (2660) for this year. He currently has rejections from Plymouth and UEA, not hopeful about ARU, everything crossed for Liverpool. I am wishing I had advised him to apply to SGUL, Edge Hill and HYMS!

But I am advising him to be on the ball for Extra.

Thanks @Monkey2001 I will tell her that she has been hit by the random interview generator, I think that will make her smile.

She has had an interview at ARU this month and has an online interview with Exeter in the new year, so fingers crossed for one of those or Southampton.

At ARU she menioned that the other interviewees were all suited and booted, with parents that were talking to them about medical things, whereas she went to the Bash Street Comp, had a hole in her coat (she had forgotten about) and I am not really any use to her other than a big thumbs up as she went in. She sent me off to the coffee shop to make sure I didn't embarrass her😁 She has no way of knowing whether she did well or not in the interview as she missed the interview practice day at college, and doesn't know anyone else who is doing or has done medicine.

It is all very stressful for them all. Chuck learning to drive into this mix of college work, interview practice, part time jobs, university worries; it's a lot for young people to deal with. Guess it shows they have the resilience that medicine requires. I know for sure that I would not have been able to do all this at her age, so whether she gets a place or not, I am hugely impressed, with her and everyone else's DCs as well.

At least the ucat only Universities are transparent I guess. It is baffling that Cardiff don't say that they prioritise people for interview from Welsh postcodes and then do it. ARU explicitly say that they award more points when shortlisting to those in East England, especially Essex. I guess then they would put some non Welsh domiciled applicants off and there would be fewer applicants.

I think that they did mention in the open day at Cardiff that welsh residents would get priority. I didn't realise ARU awarded more points to East England students. Wonder if South East might count? 🙂 I am now hoping Southampton do something similar, as that is pretty close by.

ARU define the East of England as Essex, Suffolk, Cambridgeshire, Norfolk, Bedfordshire, Hertfordshire and the North East London Boroughs. I think it is just for shortlisting to interview rather than after interview.

Just wanted people to note - for future reference that this link (which worked fine on my computer) says explicitly on page 4:

"Additional consideration is given to Welsh-domiciled and contextualised (see Cardiff University website for contextualisation information) applicants because they are under-represented in applications to UK medical schools."

I don't know when this was published, or how NoNotHimTheOtherOne got hold of it, and I hadn't seen it before it was put on this thread, but there it is in black and white. If you are Wales domiciled, you are treated as contextual by Cardiff. At least it makes that clearer.

It also really does seem to say that they rank by a) looking at academic qualifications, and setting a "threshold":
"Those who meet or exceed the minimum academic threshold will then be ranked and a cut-off point determined to proceed to consideration of the non-academic criteria (Personal Statement and Academic Reference) review (see Figure 1: Stage 2 of Selection Process)."
So it is academic but doesn't sound like it has to be 100% (up to them) to go to stage 2:
b) "Applicants who have reached or exceeded the academic cut off point for the year are considered on non-academic criteria according to the information in their Personal Statement and the Academic Referee’s statement. Applications are reviewed by trained selectors. See above for criteria reviewed.
The School of Medicine recognises that opportunities for certain types of work experience and participation in similar activities will vary according to individual applicant’s background, including socio-economic, cultural, and geographical circumstances. This will be considered when reviewing the Personal
Statement"

That is - it is now looking a lot like the old Bristol method of assessment - before they switched to just UCAT. ie you need certain minimum requirements, but the key now at Cardiff seems to be the Personal Statement, just when everybody else has stopped reading them.

Generally, if you Google "Medicine Admissions Policy X" you can find most of these hiding somewhere (top hit on google for Cardiff).
To be fair to Cardiff, it does say on their website "We carefully consider your contextual data (the circumstances in which you've been studying) upon application. Where a grade range is advertised this reflects our typical standard and contextual offers. Eligible students will be given an offer at the lower end of the advertised grade range. Where there is no grade range advertised you will usually receive additional points in the selection process. Learn about eligible courses and how contextual data is applied."

And the link takes you to their complex contextual data and at least says that they give more scoring points for 100+ points, though does not tell you who scores what, where it is added in the scoring process, or how many points it adds.

My guess is their scoring is similar to HYMS or Birmingham, but using GCSEs, PS and contextual points. But WHY can't they be clear about what gets what points and how many are needed for an interview?

It is like Birmingham - applying without contextual points is very risky, but even with them, I would not be taking that risk, as you cannot quantify anything

DD feeling absolutely overwhelmed and tearful while prepping for interview. She feels there is so much going round in her head and can't see wood for trees. Any tips and hints? I have advised to take a break from it for a while. Do they all go through this stage?

DD had her interview at UEA yesterday and couldn’t really say whether it went well or not. 🤦‍♀️ Her view was mainly ‘didn’t make an idiot of myself but didn’t say anything particularly inspiring either’ so we have now firmly put that in the ‘wait and see’ box. She received an interview invite from BSMS today which is definitely her top choice so she’s thrilled with that.

Sounds like we have a good bunch of DCs on this thread 🙂, am so impressed at their determination and resilience, keeping my fingers crossed for us all.

Sorry to hear that you DD is feeling overwhelmed. I think it’s a lot for them all. A break from prepping might be a good idea? My DD did a total switch off the night before her interview this week as she felt her mind couldn’t hold any more info. Maybe a break from books, bubble bath and some mindless TV for a bit? Whatever you/she thinks would help.

We went through heartache 4x with our DS last year. It was more heartbreaking to see him see his peers getting offers with much less predicted grades and ucat scores. We learned the hard way that it's also a game of strategy, not just grades. This time with same grades achieved, offers are steadily coming. Fingers crossed for all DC

Does Liverpool has role play station?

@Bimkom unfortunately Cardiff posted that helpful document after 15th October this year.

Thank you @Unexpecteddrivinginstructor

But the old hands knew this was how it was at Cardiff - great if you are Welsh, OK if you are contextual, lottery if you are English non-contextual.

It is easier for people from Wales and Scotland to get interviews with lower UCATs than it is for English people, and this year applying with what I call a mid-UCAT of around 2650 has been very difficult if you are English. We just need to acknowledge manage around it.