Lecturer's child at open day for second time

[Igloo71]

I went with DS to our local uni's open day over the summer. The head of department had their child there (with, I assumed, dad helping out in the background - the little girl was running back and forth to a man who seemed to be a parent). She was interrupting throughout the event, but no issues at all, I assumed it was an emergency childcare situation. DS and I laughed about it afterwards and we both had completely forgotten about it until this morning.

He's now at the offer holder event and the child is there again. He's texting me to say it's completely embarrassing as she is talking to them about her department and the child is interrupting constantly, every 5 minutes at least. She is stopping her talk to speak with the child and my DS is just embarrassed on her behalf.

DS is adamant he will never go to this uni now when it had once been his top choice. I'm left wondering if this is the norm at uni's? I've got no idea if DS should be more flexible with his outlook, he's no idea what it's like being a working mum. But equally, she's got possible childcare on site from the uni students.

This isn't a Russell Group uni, but definitely a highly regarded uni and his offer is relatively high (ABB). What do we think?

What uni?

Yes it’s unprofessional to have a small child there while she was working.

But your son’s reaction is extreme. He sounds quite immature. He needs to consider what his concern he is here and ask about it.

Is his nose out of joint because he didn’t feel she was giving him the respect he though he deserved. Or is he concerned that this will happen during lectures?

Yes he is paying for this education, and yes he should assure himself that he will be happy here. But as others have said, he seems a bit extreme in his reaction to this, as do you.

Is that the only reason your son decided not to go to that uni?

Men are never going to understand that, because it suits them very well not to. The status quo operates in their favour, so why would they want to change it?

Mmm hmm. Also wondering if a male academic conducting an open day while looking after a small child would be so awful to him that it would put him off the whole university. We all know that men who both work and parent are heroes, whereas women always seem to be incompetent at one or the other. Or both.

@titchy
"He's not a consumer ffs so quit that attitude. You don't hand over your £9k x 3 and get a degree handed to you at the end. angry"

Regardless of the rights and wrongs of bringing a small child to an open day, he absolutely is a consumer and a customer. No he's not "buying a degree" but he is buying the learning environment, the time of the teaching and pastoral staff and so on. The university will be paid for his attendance in some way and will be using the profit from that payment to keep the university running.

[quote Igloo71]@Findingthelight1
If anything, this would make me want to attend the university more, as - as a pp said - the fact this woman has made head of department with small children is rare, and commendable. I think we can all agree taking children to work is not ideal and should be avoided where at all possible, but given we have no idea of her private circumstances, and are 99% sure she was working her weekend for free, I think we can cut her some slack.

That's helpful actually and sits well with our own personal circumstances. I will mention this point to him.[/quote]
And do you he stay believe it is rare for a woman with small children to be head of a department?

I think your son will need to broaden his viewpoint considerably before he enters the working world.

OP I am sorry but your post shows such a lack of understanding of conditions facing academics these days. Lecturer's are not paid enough having spent 20 years studying and doing research. Their pensions are being eroded. They have immense - really really immense - workloads, open days are just 1/10000 additional favours asked of them. They cannot afford to pay childcare for having also the privilege to come to entice your son in the weekend. You are NOT the customer of a lecturer. Tell your son to get that in his head please before going to uni- education is NOT a service, it is a co-created learning opportunity. Most academics are still academics in this country because they love their job not because of pay. His attitude is wrong.

Well she isn't going to bring the child to lectures is she , so what if they are at the open day
Is it really that big a deal

In 4 years at uni I never met any of my department staff’s children.

Being a performing arts department we were often involved in things outside school hours (weekends and evenings).

As a one off situation of staff needing to bring a child to uni I wouldn't bat an eyelid but after two occurrences I'd start to wonder if the lack of boundaries would mean you'd end up with a 5 year old interrupting lectures if there's a culture that makes it ok for children to be present if the staff have childcare issues.

I say this as a working single parent who often has childcare to arrange at odd days/times. I occasionally do take DD to more relaxed events but she has learned how to occupy herself and interrupts very little and not in the middle of anything important.

I don't consider someone walking my dog the same as someone looking after my child no matter how much I love my dog

....also i am not sure about "extreme reaction" If I was considering a service or goods purchase that I was going to go into debt for or pay a lot of money for and i couldn't get a proper conversation with the representative because they had their small child with them and were ignoring me in favour of the child then I would not be best pleased either.

Where staff are not paid, they are entitled to take a day in lieu. They’re not doing it as volunteers from the goodness of their hearts.

Even if they were 'entitled' to this day, how would you feel about the Lecturer not turning up for the next lecture they were supposed to be giving your child, because they are taking that day in lieu ?

Doesn't really work, does it ?

Let’s hope your son relearns his attitude to working parents before he is in any professional capacity where he has to manage one. I guarantee she will have had her child there with absolutely no alternative available, and likely found it more excruciating and stressful than a teenage boy would have.

Everyone saying that the son's reaction is selfish and lacks empathy obviously has forgotten what it's like to be 18 and think the world revolves around you

This child won't be attending lectures or seminars, unless they are a prodigy. I would put it down to lack of childcare and move on. If it's a top uni for your child's subject it is short sighted to drop out on this basis.

I've had a lecturer bring their child into a lecture before. She did interrupt occasionally but we all thought it was cute and no one was really bothered about her being here.

i do think your son has had quite an extreme reaction. seems quite anti-child.

Tbf to your ds though my 18 year old ds would prob say something similar just because hes at an age where he finds little kids hard work and a bit annoying

@ReflectiveJournal

Your son's reaction is ridiculous. It is a weekend. The child will not be there for classes. If that is enough to put him off his top choice he needs to think about why he is going to university. Absolutely nothing about the course content or delivery has changed. Perhaps he feels only childless women should be allowed to work?

This.

Your son needs to learn some empathy.

And to PP who said that lots of people organise childcare for Saturday - it is possible but it is not easy especially for a pre schooler who probably normally goes to a mon-fri setting. Then, add lecturer is not even getting paid for this so paying a babysitter would make this day a cost to her - for your precious son.

Your son also sounds dramatic and entitled. £9k? And? International students pay nearly twice that. And I am sure he will have access to loan etc for which he only pays back later.

He needs to calm down before he goes to Uni.

He might also have a working wife one day.

I’m with your son on this one. It’s unprofessional and would tarnish my view of the university. He’s a consumer. He’s going to be paying a huge amount of money for his education. He is not paid to go to the open events. He is getting a feel for what he will be getting. If the university are not bothered about standards of professionalism when all eyes are on them then I’d look elsewhere too. I’m intolerant I know. But it’s first impressions.

I've done many, many open days (as staff) over the years and never seen a child belonging to staff (plenty of younger siblings of visiting students though). So no, it's not the norm.

Agree with @WouldIBeATwat about the depressing rise of student as consumer.

When I was a UG student and a lone parent, one term I had a lecture from 6-8. There was no one I could rely on for regular childcare at that time of day and couldn't afford to pay anyone, so I asked the lecturer if I could bring her sometimes. He was fine with that, enthusisastic in fact, and my DD would sit with colouring (pre-screen days) and a drink and ask me an occasional question.

Perhaps other students thought the lecturer and I were both being unprofessional but it was never expressed and mostly people were fascinated by the fact that I was doing a degree as well as having a child (and a part time job). It was much more unusual to have student parents in those days.

I can't imagine this incident putting me off a university that I really wanted to go to. I also don't really understand the relevance of your current low level of income. How does that affect your DS view that the academic is unprofessional?

@Cissyandflora

I’m with your son on this one. It’s unprofessional and would tarnish my view of the university. He’s a consumer. He’s going to be paying a huge amount of money for his education. He is not paid to go to the open events. He is getting a feel for what he will be getting. If the university are not bothered about standards of professionalism when all eyes are on them then I’d look elsewhere too. I’m intolerant I know. But it’s first impressions.

It doesn't sound like the university will be missing out much on people who decide a working parent having a child at an open day on a Saturday is unacceptable.

"Regardless of the rights and wrongs of bringing a small child to an open day, he absolutely is a consumer and a customer. No he's not "buying a degree" but he is buying the learning environment, the time of the teaching and pastoral staff and so on. The university will be paid for his attendance in some way and will be using the profit from that payment to keep the university running."

Sigh. There are so many misconceptions on how a university works. No hon, he is not a customer.

The university if not a profit making entity. It is a charitable entity - your son being there makes ZERO difference to a lecturer's pay. Salaries are based on a national scale. The government does pay the university for running costs of a student, most of which does not even cover costs. There is no profit to be made and the university is not trying to make a profit. In fact many universities end up charging overheads on research grants (thank the lecturers for these grants which they miraculously manage to obtain while juggling students who think they are customers with brilliant enough research to get funding) which make up the difference to pay operational costs. Unlike the US, endowments do not make any difference. The only time your son can legitimately demand customer service from a university entity is accommodation, catering and so on, which are separate services.

I'm wondering where all these 17 year olds are who have the confidence and abilities to "call out" their peers in the middle of a lecture hall seating hundreds.

@Wheyprotcookie

"Regardless of the rights and wrongs of bringing a small child to an open day, he absolutely is a consumer and a customer. No he's not "buying a degree" but he is buying the learning environment, the time of the teaching and pastoral staff and so on. The university will be paid for his attendance in some way and will be using the profit from that payment to keep the university running."

Sigh. There are so many misconceptions on how a university works. No hon, he is not a customer.

The university if not a profit making entity. It is a charitable entity - your son being there makes ZERO difference to a lecturer's pay. Salaries are based on a national scale. The government does pay the university for running costs of a student, most of which does not even cover costs. There is no profit to be made and the university is not trying to make a profit. In fact many universities end up charging overheads on research grants (thank the lecturers for these grants which they miraculously manage to obtain while juggling students who think they are customers with brilliant enough research to get funding) which make up the difference to pay operational costs. Unlike the US, endowments do not make any difference. The only time your son can legitimately demand customer service from a university entity is accommodation, catering and so on, which are separate services.

That's not students' businesses though is it? They're paying 30K, and several other costs, to attend. That makes him a customer.

If the uni doesn't make enough etc not his problem!

I feel like all those posters saying he lacks empathy are lacking empathy with him he’s going to come out of uni owing more than £50k why shouldn’t he at least want the appearance of a lecturer who is going to be focused on her students. I doubt anyone who goes to private school and pays fees would be happy if the teachers turned up with their children and paid more attention to them then their class!

An open day is supposed to be about the uni showing off all the great things. At 18 how is he supposed to know this won’t happen during his lectures?