Page 8 | Lecturer's child at open day for second time

Dentistlakes · 05/03/2022 13:45

It doesn’t give the best impression, but I guess as the open day is on a Saturday she may not have had a choice. I wouldn’t necessarily let it put me off the university though.

Going to university is more of a financial commitment than it used to be and I don’t blame students for expecting value for money in terms of the quality of teaching they receive. It’s a very different landscape to what it was 25 years ago.

I would encourage your son not to make too much out of it. It’s unlikely the lecturer would have the child with her when she’s teaching.(hopefully!).

Hawkins001 · 05/03/2022 13:45

@Igloo71

I went with DS to our local uni's open day over the summer. The head of department had their child there (with, I assumed, dad helping out in the background - the little girl was running back and forth to a man who seemed to be a parent). She was interrupting throughout the event, but no issues at all, I assumed it was an emergency childcare situation. DS and I laughed about it afterwards and we both had completely forgotten about it until this morning.

He's now at the offer holder event and the child is there again. He's texting me to say it's completely embarrassing as she is talking to them about her department and the child is interrupting constantly, every 5 minutes at least. She is stopping her talk to speak with the child and my DS is just embarrassed on her behalf.

DS is adamant he will never go to this uni now when it had once been his top choice. I'm left wondering if this is the norm at uni's? I've got no idea if DS should be more flexible with his outlook, he's no idea what it's like being a working mum. But equally, she's got possible childcare on site from the uni students.

This isn't a Russell Group uni, but definitely a highly regarded uni and his offer is relatively high (ABB). What do we think?

I'm puzzled by the logic, x situation = somehow equals the whole university is bad ?

GCAcademic · 05/03/2022 13:46

It’s part of the job - I think its reasonable to expect someone to attend and organise childcare (admittedly it might fall through on the odd occasion - which I could understand.)

Open days every Saturday was never part of the job until very recently. Part of this has been driven by schools increasingly making it difficult for students to attend the open days in the week.

Hawkins001 · 05/03/2022 13:46

Theirs more than one lecturer ect so why the aversion to the university ?

JenniferBarkley · 05/03/2022 13:47

@Blossomtoes I'm a lecturer (at a MN-approved RG uni no less ).

My point was that this woman does not lack commitment to her job - she wouldn't be where she is if she did.

KindlyKanga · 05/03/2022 13:48

Was he right to flag it as a concern? Of course he should have

Who has he flagged it to? Just himself and you? It seems odd if he hasn't come away with anything to say about the course and uni and that his major takeaway is to be embarrassed for someone who was doing their best and may not have been embarrassed themselves. It might have been inspiring to some attendees who have now seen you can be head of a uni department and have children.

cherryonthecakes · 05/03/2022 13:48

To give context to my DS's reaction. When I say we're not wealthy, I really mean that. He is looking to protect me and the tiny bit of money we live on per month. I'd hope those in academia appreciate that not all students are mega rich and student finance isn't going to cover it all. I scrape by working for a charity in a very low paid job. It is out of guilt with a touch of ambition and wanting to succeed that his view is this, not out of any overly privileged position which some of you are assuming.

Ask him what he thinks you should have done if he was say 3 during the pandemic and you had to homeschool and do your job? Would it have been acceptable for him to pop up in the background of zoom calls interrupting what you were discussing? He is showing privilege of being young and naive and at 17/18, he sometimes needs a dose of adult reality.

RachelGreeneGreep · 05/03/2022 13:49

As the university is his top choice, and is local, from a practical, financial point of view, he should not allow this situation to be a deciding factor imo.

GCAcademic · 05/03/2022 13:50

@BeforeGodAndAllTheFish

Your son needs to understand that things are changing. More workplaces are becoming more family friendly and accommodating. His attitude doesnt belong. And I hope he grows up a bit, or you fix the mistakes made in raising him, so that he understands the enormous pressure working mothers face when compared to working fathers.

Men are never going to understand that, because it suits them very well not to. The status quo operates in their favour, so why would they want to change it?

Original poster

Igloo71 · 05/03/2022 13:51

@cherryonthecakes

I don't understand how your son goes from irritated that he can't have a conversation with the lecturer (very reasonable) to not applying ? Do you think this is a teenage jerk reaction ? Maybe explain to him that there's no nurseries or childminders that work Saturdays so she probably has no choice. If he's empathetic then he'll wonder how single parents in hospitality and retail cope at weekends.

Going to another uni won't shield him from lecturers having children.

yes, I think it might be a jerk reaction and this was the reason why I posted initially. That he was panicking that this was normal and would happen during a normal working week and the impact on his education. He is utterly respectful of working parents. Despite what others have said about family friendly working, not all employers are this forward thinking sadly. If uni's are doing it, great. But for most of us, we have no experience of children being actively welcomed into the workplace. I've certainly never walked in a shop, doctor's surgery, etc where children are visible like this. It's a positive I agree, but this isn't quite the entire working world yet.

OP posts:

LifeGoesOn222 · 05/03/2022 13:51

Ideally she would have left the child with someone else. I'm assuming the reason she didn't was because there was no one available (and come on, you can't just grab a random student to mind your young child!) so the choice was bring them or cancel.

Original poster

Igloo71 · 05/03/2022 13:54

He was embarrassed because others were sighing and rolling their eyes.

OP posts:

GCAcademic · 05/03/2022 13:56

Despite what others have said about family friendly working, not all employers are this forward thinking sadly. If uni's are doing it, great. But for most of us, we have no experience of children being actively welcomed into the workplace. I've certainly never walked in a shop, doctor's surgery, etc where children are visible like this. It's a positive I agree, but this isn't quite the entire working world yet.

Those situations aren’t equivalent. I presume the shop worker is being paid for the hours they are working? Family friendly working doesn’t mean introducing new expectations that staff will routinely work unpaid during what is conventionally family time, and then turn a blind eye to their childcare problems. If the university was genuinely family friendly, it would organise a childcare facility for staff and visitors to its open days.

KindlyKanga · 05/03/2022 13:56

@Igloo71

He was embarrassed because others were sighing and rolling their eyes.

Then if he was embarrassed by their behaviour he should have called them out. Not her

BurbageBrook · 05/03/2022 13:56

Lecturers aren’t paid for weekend working and it’s hard to find childcare at the weekend, obviously it would never happen in a normal lecture but it’s understandable on a Saturday.

JemimaMuddledUp · 05/03/2022 13:57

I think it's a bit OTT to change his mind about the whole university based on this. How much time will he actually spend with this one lecturer? He might only be taught one module by her over the whole three years, possibly not even that.

I would wonder if he's having second thoughts anyway and this is a convenient "reason" to change his mind.

KindlyKanga · 05/03/2022 13:57

@Igloo71

He was embarrassed because others were sighing and rolling their eyes.

He could have asked them to stop sighing and stopped looking at their eyes and focused on the lecturer

Original poster

Igloo71 · 05/03/2022 13:58

He text me, we didn't have a conversation as it was during the event. but despite being accused of mysogeny, he was embarrassed because he could see a woman trying to do her best. He's back now to explain. It made him feel uncomfortable that the talk kind of fell apart because of the child being there and interrupting.

OP posts:

Hedgecog · 05/03/2022 14:00

he was embarrassed because he could see a woman trying to do her best

Of course...

FantasticFebruary · 05/03/2022 14:01

Just when you think you've read it all, up pops a post you can scarcely believe.

@Igloo71. Your 'situation/back ground' isn't exactly unusual. It's not even relevant.

A small child might be distracting,

But who the hell does your son think he is, to be embarrassed on her behalf?

When he's achieved what she has, the maybe... but some kid being embarrassed on her behalf, is is a terrible attitude. I'd be embarrassed if my child was acting like that.

He's also being utterly ridiculous deciding the Uni is now not worthy of his attendance due to this🙄

You both need to take a good look at your reactions to this & university in general, because if he goes withnthis attitude it's going to be an unmitigated disaster.

He also needs to consider whether going to university is the right path for him (a life t of kids do, it's not the be-all & end- all. Jobs, other training are often a better move.

MotherOfCrocodiles · 05/03/2022 14:01

Your son is embarrassed for her? How patronising.

I'm embarrassed for your son, at 18, feeling sufficiently superior to be embarrassed for her.

Thats a professional woman with a phd who is probably a world bloody expert on something and managing a six figure budget, giving up her weekend to help him, yes HIM - the reason academics come to these bloody out of hours events is to make uni accessible to people who might not otherwise have come.

When your son has achieved at that level and is a parent, he can feel free to be embarrassed for his peers- but I think he might have a bit more perspective by then!

Original poster

Igloo71 · 05/03/2022 14:01

@GCAcademic

Despite what others have said about family friendly working, not all employers are this forward thinking sadly. If uni's are doing it, great. But for most of us, we have no experience of children being actively welcomed into the workplace. I've certainly never walked in a shop, doctor's surgery, etc where children are visible like this. It's a positive I agree, but this isn't quite the entire working world yet.

Those situations aren’t equivalent. I presume the shop worker is being paid for the hours they are working? Family friendly working doesn’t mean introducing new expectations that staff will routinely work unpaid during what is conventionally family time, and then turn a blind eye to their childcare problems. If the university was genuinely family friendly, it would organise a childcare facility for staff and visitors to its open days.

I assume there was no childcare open today at the uni and yes, I agree, that if they were truly child friendly then it should have been. So I guess, are uni's family friendly?

OP posts:

KindlyKanga · 05/03/2022 14:03

I think the lecturer is doing alright for herself and doesn't need your son's pity.

Malbecfan · 05/03/2022 14:04

I've taken my DC to work (school) for Parents evenings simply because I had no childcare. We had no relatives anywhere closer than 230 miles away. They had books, snacks, drinks and somewhere to sit. They were around 7 & 5 at the time.

DH was a lecturer, now he only does it very infrequently, thank goodness. He was expected to do Saturdays as the "specialist" in his particular field. That meant I had to look after the DC. He tried to get others to do the Saturdays, but they would inevitably agree then phone early in the morning to say they were "ill". DH would go in, so that people like the OP's DS didn't miss out. I had to look after the DC - heaven forbid I had other plans. He didn't get a penny for any of this, nor did he get TOIL. Teaching is slightly different, but not much. A full-time teacher on a Burgundy Book contract should work 1265 hours per year. All meetings, teaching, duties and parents evenings should come out of this total. People who work P/T should do the proportion of their contract x 1265. I can assure you, I hit my hours around this time of year every year (September - August). It's crap.

As far as money is concerned, yes, it's shit being poor but students can live on the loan as long as they are careful. Both my DDs have managed fine. However, both are good and creative cooks who chose to self-cater (cheaper) and not have en-suite rooms where possible. As someone else has said, they get holidays so they can work and save then. Why not spend the next 6 months helping your DS with budgeting and cooking skills?

SpinsForGin · 05/03/2022 14:04

I assume there was no childcare open today at the uni

Lots of uni's don't have childcare. I've never worked at one that has on-site childcare facilities.

and yes, I agree, that if they were truly child friendly then it should have been. So I guess, are uni's family friendly?

It very much depends on the role.
Academia is categorically not a family friendly profession which is why there are so few women in senior academic roles.