Lecturer's child at open day for second time

[Igloo71]

I went with DS to our local uni's open day over the summer. The head of department had their child there (with, I assumed, dad helping out in the background - the little girl was running back and forth to a man who seemed to be a parent). She was interrupting throughout the event, but no issues at all, I assumed it was an emergency childcare situation. DS and I laughed about it afterwards and we both had completely forgotten about it until this morning.

He's now at the offer holder event and the child is there again. He's texting me to say it's completely embarrassing as she is talking to them about her department and the child is interrupting constantly, every 5 minutes at least. She is stopping her talk to speak with the child and my DS is just embarrassed on her behalf.

DS is adamant he will never go to this uni now when it had once been his top choice. I'm left wondering if this is the norm at uni's? I've got no idea if DS should be more flexible with his outlook, he's no idea what it's like being a working mum. But equally, she's got possible childcare on site from the uni students.

This isn't a Russell Group uni, but definitely a highly regarded uni and his offer is relatively high (ABB). What do we think?

@RonCarlos

Working as an academic is extremely un-family friendly, with many events and work taking place outside standard childcare hours. I think your son's reaction was a bit extreme TBH.

I agree. If the lecturer wasn't embarrassed when should he be?!

I would be questioning the lecturers commitment to the job

I agree with this - if I were this woman's friend I'd be telling her to sack off the open days and spend some time at home with her kid.

She's a female head of department, with young children, presumably at a young age. Her workload will be constant. There may well be a problem with her commitment to the job, but it certainly won't be that she needs more.

I suspect it has already been said but if I were you I’d be talking with my son about this being a ridiculous thing to base his decision making on. He’s being very self important. As all young adults are to be fair! To me it feels judgemental and sneery, and I don’t understand how that relates to what his experience at that uni will be.

@notacooldad

DS is adamant he will never go to this uni now when it had once been his top choice You speak to your son how you want but if Immine started to throw his dummy out like this I'd be telling him to grow the hell up and stop being intolerant and get a grip. I'd agree it's not perfect but seriously? He adamant hea not going? Are you sure hes cut our for uni if he struggles with this.

My point exactly, yet the OP has flounced because she doesn't like the replies.

@PaulGallico

I deliver HE courses in an FE setting. We have open days on Saturdays and this would simply not be allowed. I think your son is right - I would be questioning the lecturers commitment to the job, anticipate future issues and consider studying elsewhere. I think he is being quite astute in his thinking.

This. This is exactly what I would think. A one off, fine but repeat performances would make me question whether the lecturer really cared to give her time to her students especially as all these students are about to accept offers. And as the OP said the lecturer was constantly having to do parenting duties rather than the job at hand that was answering would be student questions and making a positive impression so that uni would be first choice.

Whether it’s paid or not if you accept a request to do a job you do it, you don’t half arse it which the lecturer was doing

and yes I have and do suck up childcare costs for voluntary jobs.

Do people on here, know how much a head of department earns? (I know it differs from uni to uni but it’s a significant salary)

It’s not great that her child is there, the real issue is that they keep interrupting her whilst speaking. I would find that quite irritating tbh. If I was your son I’d enquire to see if this is a case of she can’t cover child care in non working hours or if they does happen in school holidays/ late lectures etc.

Also annoying that people think those that attend uni are consumers/ customers when you choose to attend further education and pay for the privilege. Once you earn over 25K you start to pay it back, the reason majority of people don’t if due to the ridiculous interest rates that are added every year.

Your son is having an immature reaction to a minor inconvenience IMO. He will encounter plenty, whether he goes to an expensive or "cheap" uni and it sounds like he needs some preparation in adjusting to inconveniences in life.

It's hardly as if faculty will bring their children to lectures!

@JenniferBarkley

I would be questioning the lecturers commitment to the job

I agree with this - if I were this woman's friend I'd be telling her to sack off the open days and spend some time at home with her kid.

She's a female head of department, with young children, presumably at a young age. Her workload will be constant. There may well be a problem with her commitment to the job, but it certainly won't be that she needs more.

I could not agree more!

Its not a simple as goodwill or coming in on a day off though is it - lecturers are employed for more than just there contact hours. In schools there are a number of hours directed time - at universities it doesn't quite work like that but the expectation is there that you as a lecture particpate in these activities . Its part of the job - I think its reasonable to expect someone to attend and organise childcare (admittedly it might fall through on the odd occasion - which I could understand.)

Agree Barrawarra . The OP was astounded when I said he was self-important

@SpinsForGin

I don't think your son's circumstances are that unusual. A high proportion of students are from low income backgrounds. I fully understand the challenges that entails. However, I think this would be a useful teaching moment. Instead of being too critical of the member of staff it might be useful to unpick why this member of staff has brought her child. There lots to discuss there about juggling a professional job with having a family.

Yes, I will do that. this thread has been enlightening from that point of view. He's witnessed the daily struggles we have had in terms of juggling. As I've said up thread, we both had no idea that lecturers are expected to give up their own time so now it all makes sense. Was he right to flag it as a concern? Of course he should have. I will speak to him later about the points some have raised and your point is really helpful.

Most on here disagree that it's a concern and he should flag it up. Why is he so important that his minor inconvenience should affect this lecturer's work- life by being questioned? The entitlement is staggering.

This reminds me when I was an admin person in a university. One of the lecturers had 5 kids and would bring them in during the summer and ask me to keep an eye on them as they ran up and down the corridor. I hated it and thought it was quite unprofessional.

Where staff are not paid, they are entitled to take a day in lieu. They’re not doing it as volunteers from the goodness of their hearts

That’s simply not true. We’re not entitled to time off in lieu. Academic contracts state that the university’s business operates over seven days, and that we are not subject to the European Working Time Directive. There would be no opportunity to take TOIL anyway, given that there is no space in the week to do so, and we struggle to take our annual leave because operational stuff is now scheduled for every month of the year except three weeks in August.

People are doing this stuff because they’re told that their jobs are on the line if they don’t. So you’re right that we’re not doing it out of the goodness of our hearts.

I don't get the issue personally, its unlikely he will be having lectures at the weekend so unsure what impact on the quality of the teaching having a child there on a weekend is.

He's not a consumer ffs so quit that attitude. You don't hand over your £9k x 3 and get a degree handed to you

This.

I have a teenage son. I'd be quite shocked and disappointed in him if he was this adamant and inflexible around a small child tbh.

@Igloo71

I also this is a quite strong overreaction on your sons part - to not want to attend a university purely on the basis on of lecturer doing something very minor.

I could understand it more if it he was considering her a supervisor for his final year dissertation or something similar (even then I would think it was a gross overreaction - I'm an academic & have worked with many who have had to have children with them at various points due to the hours we work and how much personal you are effectively coerced into giving up).

Your son needs to understand that things are changing. More workplaces are becoming more family friendly and accommodating. His attitude doesnt belong. And I hope he grows up a bit, or you fix the mistakes made in raising him, so that he understands the enormous pressure working mothers face when compared to working fathers.

To give context to my DS's reaction. When I say we're not wealthy, I really mean that. He is looking to protect me and the tiny bit of money we live on per month. I'd hope those in academia appreciate that not all students are mega rich and student finance isn't going to cover it all. I scrape by working for a charity in a very low paid job. It is out of guilt with a touch of ambition and wanting to succeed that his view is this, not out of any overly privileged position which some of you are assuming.

I don't get though why this would make him judgemental of someone who has their child present at an open day. You can be financially poor and have no grasp of a lot of realities.

@twelly

Its not a simple as goodwill or coming in on a day off though is it - lecturers are employed for more than just there contact hours. In schools there are a number of hours directed time - at universities it doesn't quite work like that but the expectation is there that you as a lecture particpate in these activities . Its part of the job - I think its reasonable to expect someone to attend and organise childcare (admittedly it might fall through on the odd occasion - which I could understand.)

But most academics signed up do the job when you were expected to attend 2/3 open days a year and only one of them might have been on a Saturday.

In recent years student recruitment has changed and become far more competitive. open days and applicant visit days have increased significantly and those 2/3 events a year have turned into almost weekly events most of which take place on a Saturday.
Staff have been expected to just step up and attend all of these events without their workload being adjusted to take this into account.

I work 50+ hours a week when I'm actually contracted to work 35 hours. Any Saturday events I attend are in addition to this.

People are doing this stuff because they’re told that their jobs are on the line if they don’t. So you’re right that we’re not doing it out of the goodness of our hearts.

yes @GCAcademic

Myself & my colleagues do work considerable extra hours because we are on short, fixed term contracts and are therefore facing constant job insecurity.

I don't understand how your son goes from irritated that he can't have a conversation with the lecturer (very reasonable) to not applying ? Do you think this is a teenage jerk reaction ? Maybe explain to him that there's no nurseries or childminders that work Saturdays so she probably has no choice. If he's empathetic then he'll wonder how single parents in hospitality and retail cope at weekends.

Going to another uni won't shield him from lecturers having children.

@BeforeGodAndAllTheFish
you fix the mistakes made in raising him

Thank you for your insightful comment on my parenting. What a gem you are.

@JenniferBarkley

I would be questioning the lecturers commitment to the job

I agree with this - if I were this woman's friend I'd be telling her to sack off the open days and spend some time at home with her kid.

She's a female head of department, with young children, presumably at a young age. Her workload will be constant. There may well be a problem with her commitment to the job, but it certainly won't be that she needs more.

If you were this woman’s friend she’d laugh in your face. She’s not in a position to “sack off” the open days. They’re part (albeit unpaid) part of her job. What universe do you live in?

So, what was the response when your DS, in a polite, lught-hearted way, asked whether the little girl would be there during lectures, too?