Lecturer's child at open day for second time

[Igloo71]

I went with DS to our local uni's open day over the summer. The head of department had their child there (with, I assumed, dad helping out in the background - the little girl was running back and forth to a man who seemed to be a parent). She was interrupting throughout the event, but no issues at all, I assumed it was an emergency childcare situation. DS and I laughed about it afterwards and we both had completely forgotten about it until this morning.

He's now at the offer holder event and the child is there again. He's texting me to say it's completely embarrassing as she is talking to them about her department and the child is interrupting constantly, every 5 minutes at least. She is stopping her talk to speak with the child and my DS is just embarrassed on her behalf.

DS is adamant he will never go to this uni now when it had once been his top choice. I'm left wondering if this is the norm at uni's? I've got no idea if DS should be more flexible with his outlook, he's no idea what it's like being a working mum. But equally, she's got possible childcare on site from the uni students.

This isn't a Russell Group uni, but definitely a highly regarded uni and his offer is relatively high (ABB). What do we think?

@Igloo71

I went with DS to our local uni's open day over the summer. The head of department had their child there (with, I assumed, dad helping out in the background - the little girl was running back and forth to a man who seemed to be a parent). She was interrupting throughout the event, but no issues at all, I assumed it was an emergency childcare situation. DS and I laughed about it afterwards and we both had completely forgotten about it until this morning.

He's now at the offer holder event and the child is there again. He's texting me to say it's completely embarrassing as she is talking to them about her department and the child is interrupting constantly, every 5 minutes at least. She is stopping her talk to speak with the child and my DS is just embarrassed on her behalf.

DS is adamant he will never go to this uni now when it had once been his top choice. I'm left wondering if this is the norm at uni's? I've got no idea if DS should be more flexible with his outlook, he's no idea what it's like being a working mum. But equally, she's got possible childcare on site from the uni students.

This isn't a Russell Group uni, but definitely a highly regarded uni and his offer is relatively high (ABB). What do we think?

"DS is adamant he will never go to this uni now when it had once been his top choice."

Sounds like it's not the place for him. He might want to think about his own prejudices though, and it might be worth you talking to him about the struggle working parents face, doing extra hours in their own time to help potential students make key life choices.

Regardless of the issues around working at academia at the moment, it does strike me as very unprofessional. I'm a teacher in an independent school and I have to do things outside of the normal working day. I can't just bring my children along, I have to arrange for family to look after them or a babysitter.

@woodhill Oh I wish, however he’s overseas and it’s incredibly complicated.
Money is not going to be easy for us. He will live at home, but he also helps with some caring responsibilities too. So this uni being local is his top choice.

Please stop thinking of him going to university as something that costs 9k a year. He doesn’t have to worry about that until he’s earning enough to pay it back, and even then in very small instalments, so affordability is not an issue. For someone who is nervous about spending money and getting it right, it is really harmful to think of this as a big debt that is racking up and up and see the whole experience through that lens. You’re letting this fiction of paying a yearly bill of 9k out of your own pocket overshadow all your thinking.

I wouldn't thought your child would have MORE empathy, given his experiences of childhood, not less.

Surely he can understand the concept that she probably would rather her child wasn't there, either? That sometimes life can be difficult to organise.

I know that teenagers are supposed to think "why am I having to deal with this", rather than "mm, wonder what's going on in her life, this must be really awkward for her", but maybe you can suggest a different perspective.

And as for the "I'm giving him my last farthing, so he's been very very careful with it", give over!! Millions of students have had to scrimp and scrap to go to university, is has no relevance in this situation.

Having said all that, he has already found the language of ambition, and identifies that's why he's going. Expecting others to be perfect, and to not bother him with human failings, would certainly be a part of that.

@gogohm I can assure you it’s not a chip on his shoulder. Quite the opposite. I think he feels that he’s breaking out of a mould and has pride in thinking he might actually just achieve something unthinkable even one generation back. He is far from thinking he is owed this. Maybe he just built it up into something amazing and actually it was all a bit meh?

Hopefully it will work out for him OP

@Igloo71, I don't know why you're so pissed off.

Your son's comments revealed complete ignorance of the uphill road women face while trying to hold down a job or build a career. That is - all women, not just those who didn't go to university.

How did he get to the point of heading off to university knowing so little of how the world works - and in fact so little of the struggles all women face simply because they are women with a child or children?

This woman's university education doesn't change the fact that she is a woman. She isn't disrespecting the hard working aspirational poor by having her child at the open house or the informational session. She is simply a woman doing her best in a world that chooses to disregard the fact that children don't look after themselves.

I completely agree that your son is somewhere along the line from 'precious' to 'massive stick up his arse'. He needs to lose the big Them and Us chip on his shoulder.

You and he both need to forget about the notion that he will be able to support you while at the same time not making the threshold income where repayments would kick in. He would just about be able to support himself under that level. He needs to aim higher, and make those repayments.

Where I work, it's not voluntary and it's not good will - there's a rota, and a handy little bit of your contract that says 37 hours a week plus any other hours which may be deemed appropriate for your role. So it may be that she's stepped up and volunteered, but it may also be that this has been scheduled for many months.

I don't think she should, ideally, have brought the kid. HOwever I wouldn't write a university off on that basis if he likes everything else. Oh, and anyone saying 'he's paying for a service' fundamentally does not understand universities or how they work.

Or, what @mathanxiety said!

[quote Igloo71]@woodhill Oh I wish, however he’s overseas and it’s incredibly complicated.
Money is not going to be easy for us. He will live at home, but he also helps with some caring responsibilities too. So this uni being local is his top choice.[/quote]
I would really encourage him to not let this particular incident put him off. If this was his top choice then there must be lots of reasons why this is the case.

I think getting him to reframe the experience might help. Instead of seeing it as an academic not caring about their students think about the fact this person has turned up despite clearly having childcare issues. I can't imagine the child wanted to be there and I can't imagine she wanted to bring her child.... but she showed up and obviously put her job ahead of her child this morning. That's never an easy thing to do.
I'd say that shows that they are dedicated to their students.

OP you keep going on about needing to understand your situation. Like plenty have said, millions of working class student pay fees and he'll have the advantage of staying home so no accommodation costs. Why the extreme worry over money HE will pay back as a graduate tax?

17 year olds are young but I think they have the savvy to know that lecturers won't have pre-schoolers with them at lectures! Plenty of us have kids starting uni, and I teach many who are off this year, and I don't know any of them who would be this naive to think that children are at lectures or that their feelings trump the situation.

As for him being embarrassed for her? Like PPs have said, how dare he? He hasn't earned the right to be embarrassed for her. The more I read of your replied the more I think his thinking comes from you.

[quote mathanxiety]@Igloo71, I don't know why you're so pissed off.

Your son's comments revealed complete ignorance of the uphill road women face while trying to hold down a job or build a career. That is - all women, not just those who didn't go to university.

How did he get to the point of heading off to university knowing so little of how the world works - and in fact so little of the struggles all women face simply because they are women with a child or children?

This woman's university education doesn't change the fact that she is a woman. She isn't disrespecting the hard working aspirational poor by having her child at the open house or the informational session. She is simply a woman doing her best in a world that chooses to disregard the fact that children don't look after themselves.

I completely agree that your son is somewhere along the line from 'precious' to 'massive stick up his arse'. He needs to lose the big Them and Us chip on his shoulder.

You and he both need to forget about the notion that he will be able to support you while at the same time not making the threshold income where repayments would kick in. He would just about be able to support himself under that level. He needs to aim higher, and make those repayments.[/quote]
Bravo.

hollow laugh at the idea of 'taking a day in lieu' as well.

@Igloo71

over £9000 per year, we are not wealthy and I'm a single parent. I want to make sure my DS gets good value for money. Does that make him selfish? I guess it does, but he's a consumer so maybe that gives him a right to?

Yes, it is 9000 a year and l'm sure you will find many people who aren't wealthy enough to afford that much every year. That is what loans are for.

Your child's education isn't being put at risk by this child being at these two events. It's an event, not a lecture, seminar and he has not officially even started attending.

This person has childcare issues, obviously they are struggling. And yes, it is not selfish to want a good education for your child, however l think that your son might not want to attend for other reasons.

Doesn't seem very professional to me.

It might not be "contracted hours" but she still represe to the university .

@phishy

Your son sounds a bit odd and is maybe not cut out for university if he is so easily unsettled.

Seriously? Most 17 year olds have said worse and come out on the other side with a degree. Considering the obstacles folk from poorer families face I think the comments here are in poor taste, rude and in this case just darn incorrect.

Most of my class, a stem subject were pretty odd too, hasn’t held them back

Honestly OP if you are reading this I did come across some snotty attitudes at university. Sadly that is the world but you can’t let others keep you in your “place”.

@starfishmummy

Doesn't seem very professional to me. It might not be "contracted hours" but she still represe to the university .

Would it have just better if she didn't turn up?

Even that meant there was nobody there to represent that particular subject?

How pissed off would visitors be if they'd travelled all the way to an applicant visit day to find no academic to talk to.

Worrying about one lecturer and her kid is pointless. You pay, you get a degree, you hope you get a better paid job because of it. Hoping for much more from university will probably lead to disappointment.

You pay, you get a degree,
Oooh no.... this implies you buy a degree. That's not the case!
You pay tuition fees which gives you access to the services offered at a particular university which is so much more than tuition.

You work hard and you get a degree.

Bizarre reaction from your DS.

He would do well to consider the constraints and pressures placed on academics (particularly women) at universities today.

Having read your OP again, and mulling it over, I wonder if the problem is that your DD thinks university isn't really for the likes of him and he is adamant that his first choice sucks because he is actually panicking about being a fish out of water at university? That is the only possible reason apart from being very precious that would explain the strength of feeling hw is expressing.

It's one thing to envision university and looking after mum with the income a degree will help him to attain, but it's another thing entirely to start a new part of your life in an environment which is completely unfamiliar to your family. Maybe the visits have sowed the seeds of insecurity?

Have you built up this narrative of 'first ever to go to university'? Have you spoken to him in a serious tone about the financial aspect of studying at third level?

Is he suffering from impostor syndrome, in other words, and masking it with pompous statements about professionalism?

If you think you might have over egged it, you need to dial the financial preoccupation right down, and also dismiss his talk (or yours) about supporting you. If you've been emphasising the ground breaking element of him heading to university, the first in the family, etc, stop it immediately.

Lots of people who come from disadvantaged backgrounds go to university. There was a first generation in everyone's family. If you've been building this thing into a massive undertaking with him cast as the heroic outsider and the future of the family on his shoulders, stop it.

Sit him down and ask him how he sees himself fitting in in university, his hopes of friendship and participation in clubs. Encourage him to join whatever clubs strike his fancy, and to make new friends.

@FarDownTheRiver read and very much appreciated!
I think some folks just don’t get it. There’s nothing more I can say without it just coming across as selfish, anti feminist, or whatever.

[quote mathanxiety]@Igloo71, I don't know why you're so pissed off.

Your son's comments revealed complete ignorance of the uphill road women face while trying to hold down a job or build a career. That is - all women, not just those who didn't go to university.

How did he get to the point of heading off to university knowing so little of how the world works - and in fact so little of the struggles all women face simply because they are women with a child or children?

This woman's university education doesn't change the fact that she is a woman. She isn't disrespecting the hard working aspirational poor by having her child at the open house or the informational session. She is simply a woman doing her best in a world that chooses to disregard the fact that children don't look after themselves.

I completely agree that your son is somewhere along the line from 'precious' to 'massive stick up his arse'. He needs to lose the big Them and Us chip on his shoulder.

You and he both need to forget about the notion that he will be able to support you while at the same time not making the threshold income where repayments would kick in. He would just about be able to support himself under that level. He needs to aim higher, and make those repayments.[/quote]
👏 👏👏 Could not have put it better. No wonder women end up fucked in the job market after having kids with attitudes like this.

I'd actually have a lot of respect for a university being so child-friendly. I was going to give a paper at a conference this summer with my 4 year old in tow but I guess that would be unprofessional.

@mathanxiety imposter syndrome possibly. Never ever has he had any pressure from me. Equally he never called anyone unprofessional. It was all of the incident coupled with other kids clearly getting annoyed by the child. Maybe he’s just disappointed? Going to uni is something which has been nurtured by his teacher actually