Medicine 2023 Entry

[opoponax]

Hi all,

I don't think there is a Medicine 2023 Entry thread yet, so it might be an idea to get one started.

Anyone out there with DC applying or reapplying for Medicine 2023, please join a friendly thread for mutual support and useful advice from those who understand the UK Medical School application process.

I just wanted to come on to say my daughter attended the 'gateway to medicine' talk at Leeds uni last week. It's worth considering if you fit those criteria.

I'm not encouraging my daughter to study medicine to be honest. However she's keen so I will try to help.

I do know from working in HEI that it's never a good idea to mix choices on a UCAS. Try to avoid.

@Topeskin hopefully some of the experts @mumsneedwine @Monkey2001 @GANFYD will be along soon. KMMS initially select based on a comparison between her GCSE results and those of her school, so if her average grade is 7.5 in a school where the average GCSE grade is 5.5 then she stands a better chance because she has performed better than her peers than if the average grade for her school is 8 in which case she has gained lower grade than her peers. Even if she has performed better than the school average, it is not possible to know how much better you need to be to get an interview. I suspect that is because the ratio changes each year depending on who applies and from which schools. I imagine with TAGs it will be harder than usual to really shine compared to others based on GCSE.

I think the other thing to drill down is why she doesn't want to take a gap year and would rather study pharmacy than have a gap year. If it is because she thinks she might do graduate medicine then stongly advise her not to. It is much harder to get into and costs much more and takes far longer. I think it would also be hard to spend three years studying a degree you are not particularly interested in but need to get a high mark for grad med. If it is because she quite fancies Pharmacy than maybe explore if that would be a better option, not because she might not manage medicine but if she isn't 100% committed then the junior doctor years sound horrific and many doctors advise against doing medicine.

My dd wasn't keen on the gap year option, but there isn't anything she really wants to do instead and so decided that if she doesn't get in she will get work and reapply. I think essentially she wants to leave home - fair enough, I do see my role at this stage to get her independent. We have discussed how that year might work, maybe trying to get some live in care work, maybe an au pair for some of it after interviews etc. She is hoping to go direct from school but knows that realistically it may be a two year process but that is preferable to the time, cost and difficulty of graduate medicine.

One area which we haven't yet looked into is studying in Europe. I think dd might be open to considering that if the UK doesn't work out after a few years, but then realistically she might not be able to return to work in the UK and she has no great desire to live in a different country.

Hopefully someone else will be able to advise on BMAT unis.

@Topeskin OK, I'm going to be a bit tough. I'm afraid she has no safe choices, and Kings would be a punt with her UCAT. Sunderland might be worth a go as she has some good work experience. I'm sorry - I've attached Monkeys wonderful spreadsheet to help.
BMAT would be the best avenue, and apply to Cambridge, Brighton and Lancaster.
Pharmacy is a competitive course, that's 4 years long, and it is unlikely she'll get an offer unless her personal statement is pharmacy orientated. Not medicine.
If she really wants to be a doctor then she needs to not think about another course for now. It's a tough 5 years followed by another very tough 5 years so dedication is vital.

@Topeskin oh god I'm sorry. Saw the AAB prediction. Most choices want AAA as do a lot of Pharmacy places - I'd argue that with school !

Thank you @pompomdaisy , @Unexpecteddrivinginstructor . @mumsneedwine has been so helpful too, asking her questions from the time DD got her gcse result. She did at some point consider dropping medicine and just go for pharmacy, but she’s not making up her mind. I will show her your replies, thank you

@Topeskin it's so tough as they do t really know what each job entails. Can I suggest in the next week she pops into a pharmacy and asks to talk to one - they might give her 5 minutes, they might offer an hour helping. They might say no, but worth a try.
The only certainty is if she doesn't apply she won't get in.
If she's really unsure I would suggest a year out. Apply this year, see what happens but be prepared to think again next year. In the meantime try and get some work experience in a hospital - volunteering is the quickest way in. It's a big decision and expensive commitment so best to be v sure.

just seen this @mumsneedwine , thank you , I will show her all these, and try to let her see what’s best choice for her now, we took a break on the whole application after her ucat, so now that she’s back on it, she just need to make up her mind😌

@Topeskin do BMAT. She might ace it. Nothing lost, except a lot few hours one morning 😊

@Topeskin if she wants to do medicine she should focus on doing medicine, if she would be happy with Pharmacy she should focus on that.

Her safest option for getting an interview is.Keele as GCSEs and UCAT pass the academic screening and it will just be down to R&R form, and she has had several positions of responsibility. They don't look at predictions. However, offers are A*AA or AA with A in EPQ.

Next most feasible are KMMS and Sunderland. Nobody knows how the new system at Sunderland might work out, but they are using CASPar and UCAT. That might put a lot of applicants with safer ioptions off. As above, KMMS depends on how she did in GCSEs relative to her school cohort.

For BMAT Lancaster would be a great option as they treat 7-9 as equal and accept AAB predictions. They need a secure rather than stellar BMAT score.

I think the only other real BMAT option is BSMS, but she needs to check whether they look at A level predictions.

If not too late, would she consider doing an EPQ? Lots of med schools now offer reduced grades with an A/A* in EPQ, so if school is right that she is heading for a B in Biology, an A at EPQ could take pressure off A level grades and give many more options next year.

As an advocate of gap years, I would be strongly advising her to plan one if she wants to do Medicine. Most people are not successful first time.

I took a gap year (not medicine) and it meant I went in with more self confidence, more motovation to get a graduate job and the break from academic work meant I was ready for a new challenge.

I think that they feel that a gap year is a bit like being held back a year at school and having to make friends with people in lower sxith. I don't think until they fully realise, especially with medicine that if they go straight in they will be in the minority. And how little the age gap matters once they leave school.

Can I suggest in the next week she pops into a pharmacy and asks to talk to one - they might give her 5 minutes, they might offer an hour helping.

Bear in mind that about 1/3 of pharmacists don't work in retail pharmacies. They're about 22% in hospitals and 11% in primary care settings (health centres, large GP practices). (Figures from 2019) This proportion is likely to increase in the future. Secondary- and primary-care pharmacists are members of healthcare teams rather than separate solo practitioners. A small number of pharmacists also go on to work in specialist roles in the pharmaceutical industry. So you don't have to want to work in a high-street/supermarket pharmacy to consider pharmacy as an option.

I agree with previous posters that if a student is really interested in medicine but doesn't get any offers they should aim to reapply the following year, taking appropriate steps to strengthen their application. (Not getting the grades is a completely different scenario.) Starting another degree with the intention of applying for medicine again at the end is unwise. For pharmacy in particular, you currently have to complete a pre-registration year after your 4-year MPharm to be fully qualified, so you're looking at five years before you're in a position where you know you have pharmacy to fall back on if necessary, and where you can make money as a locum during your second-degree medicine studies.

Not getting the grades is a completely different scenario. Alhough many medical schools will consider resits, especially if only missed by one grade.

....... and of course there are LOADS of other healthcare professionals in roles which most Y13s have never encountered. Apart from the more obvious ones like Paramedics, Nurses, Physician Associates, which all feel more like Doctors to me than Pharmacists do. Don't underestimate the options open to nurses now, a Macmillan Nurse earns £40k and runs their own clinics, nurse consultants can earn more, so equivalent pay wise to Pharmacists. I don't know whether there are any good websites which help you to think through what it is about Medicine which appeals to you and what other roles can provide similar experiences.

My DS was really lucky to get a job as an Assistant Physiologist for his gap year. He is enjoying it very much and learning valuable skills. He is a bit sad that most of his friends are going away, but enough are taking gap years, or have been delayed by a year for other reasons, to mean he is not dreading the year ahead. He would probably want to do to Physiotherapy if he is not successful in applying to Medicine this year. DS1 had a positive gap year in spite of Covid, no offers in 2019, 3 offers in 2020.

@NoNotHimTheOtherOne I did realise that, but no chance of getting to speak to a hospital or research pharmacist in next few days. And UCAS form will be due in v v soon.

I don't know whether there are any good websites which help you to think through what it is about Medicine which appeals to you and what other roles can provide similar experiences.

The NHS Careers site is a good starting point: www.healthcareers.nhs.uk/explore-roles/explore-roles

Paramedic is another v popular degree if don't succeed in medicine. I know many a student who loves their job and is very grateful they never made it to medical school.

@Monkey2001 MacMillan nurses are the best people in the world. I owe 2 of them so so much. I even got off my bum and ran a half marathon once to raise funds - never ever again though. I'll stick to cakes and coffee.

@Unexpecteddrivinginstructor is so wise re gap years. I have mentioned your advice to my dd just in case. She is a summer baby so takes some comfort from that. But it really might be the very best thing that could happen to any of them.

Well, this weekend we did Leicester open day, then drove on to Sheffield, then had a couple of days in Newcastle before popping into Nottingham again on the way home. We also did Bristol open day and visited Southampton last week. I am now officially med-schooled-out and it's all over to DD now to make her final decisions.

@opoponax we might have walked past you then! I think you were probably earlier than us, we were in Leicester 11-4. Did any get eliminated based on visits? For us, DS2 would not consider St Andrews even if he liked the course because he wants a different place - they get on very well, but he wants to plough his own groove. Could be nice for you to have 2 in Newcastle?

How funny to think we were there at the same time on Saturday. DD was positive about them all, which is reassuring as I think she would be happy with any of them. However, it doesn't make the whittling down easy. This was her first visit to Newcastle and she loved it but I don't think DS being there really influences her either way. It was useful for her to meet some second year medics in DS's house though and to get an insight into Newcastle living after Park View.

Thank you for this very helpful information. Today we looked at Leicester s 2023 admission criteria and QR score as the 7th MMI Station was not mentioned there. We would not know about this if you have not mentioned it.

I feel the same! We have one more to visit - ARU on 1/10 and then I’m done, all over to DD to decide the places to put on the form.

Can I ask a question about interviews? Do applicants get a thanks but no thanks if they don’t get an interview from somewhere or is it just tumbleweed silence?

@justjuggling they will get answers, but they may come very late (looking at you Kings College London!)

Hi all

I'd be really grateful for a little advice for DS applying for medicine. His UCAT result is over 3000 with Band 1 for SJ, he has all A* at A Level (applying with grades in hand) and 9's/8's at GCSE. He's not a superconfident individual compared to many of his peers but has spent a gap year in a public facing job to develop more confidence before applying.

Research seems to indicate that he's likely to get offered interviews based on UCAT score/academic record but that he needs to be strategic in his application choices to maximise how much those count towards interview scoring and hence the chance of converting an interview into an offer.

Any particular suggestions ? Thanks.