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Higher education

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Medicine 2023 Entry

1000 replies

opoponax · 21/01/2022 19:05

Hi all,

I don't think there is a Medicine 2023 Entry thread yet, so it might be an idea to get one started.

Anyone out there with DC applying or reapplying for Medicine 2023, please join a friendly thread for mutual support and useful advice from those who understand the UK Medical School application process.

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opoponax · 21/01/2022 19:41

@Monkey2001
@GANFYD
@Mumsneedwine
Hope you can join the thread with your excellent input.

Also all the lovely medics and parents who have been through it all before.

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mumsneedwine · 21/01/2022 19:50

Happy to help 😊. Let's hope next year is a little more normal.

Begonias · 21/01/2022 20:00

My DD is planning on applying in 2023, looking for all the help we can get.

opoponax · 21/01/2022 20:15

Thank you @mumsneedwine Smile

Hi there @Begonias I also have a DD planning on applying in 2023. Hope your DD is getting on well with her A Levels. Does your DD have any idea of where she would like to apply yet?

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Thethingswedoforlove · 25/01/2022 20:42

Checking in. My dd hoping to apply for 2023. @mumsneedwine has already been incredibly helpful to me. Thank you! Looking forward to being on this journey with others going through similar. And we can share tips and ideas and the stress of it all…..my main question is how much to we leave to them and how much do we push or do for them (eg creating a spreadsheet with the relevant data in it to be able to consider those strategic applications!)

Thethingswedoforlove · 25/01/2022 20:45

@opoponax thank you for creating this thread

opoponax · 25/01/2022 21:35

Hi @Thethingswedoforlove. Great to hook up with others in the same boat. Hopefully we'll get different input on your question but I'm happy to kick off with my own experience. My DS1 was very self-motivated to organise his own research/volunteering/work experience and the hard bit was actually knowing what exactly he was up to as he would just say that it was 'all good' and we just had to take his word for it. He was lucky though that he had a really good school MEDSOC pointing out the right steps to take and how important they were, so we were a bit redundant at that stage. It was only over the summer holidays once he had done his UCAT and it all started to crystallise for him and feel real that there was a proper dialogue with him about it. At that stage DH and I independently started from scratch with a brand new spreadsheet and systematically went through all the med schools' websites gathering all the data, so effectively replicated what DS had done himself (but we didn't know he had been that thorough until we cross checked and found that we were reaching the same conclusions). It was a useful exercise and DS said good for him to have us play Devil's Advocate on why he was eliminating certain med schools before he made his final choices for his UCAS form. I think input depends a lot on the child too. I don't really see the point of pushing them but if a DC were really laid back about the process yet really wanted to be a doctor (i.e. not really understanding just what is involved) I think it would be doing them a disservice not to help them understand what the various hurdles are so they are clear on what is expected of them at each stage. So say for example if a DC said they would prepare for the UCAT in a week and then get it done with and go on holiday, I think it would be perfectly appropriate to point out that unless they are Einstein they would be setting themselves up for failure. So I guess I would say, more focus on giving them reality checks rather than actively pushing them through the process. The reason I say that is not from any parent psychology stance, more that they have to really want it themselves to go through it all and I am sure some (rightly) decide that it is not for them as they get into the thick of it.

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Thethingswedoforlove · 25/01/2022 21:46

Good advice. Thank you. You have already been through this? That is impressive parenting- to go through it twice! Where is your ds1 @opoponax? And wot year?

mumsneedwine · 25/01/2022 21:46

I'd say parental input depend on how much help they get from school. If lots of help then they should be able to navigate themselves. But no help from school and some support is necessary to wade through the application process. Working out where you can maximise your chances of interview is a bit of a task.

MasterJames · 25/01/2022 22:02

Can I join as a lurker and place marker? Ds is in year 9 so it's way, way early but he is adamant he wants to study medicine so I'd like to learn as much about the admissions process (which may of course change) in advance as possible. My MIL is a doctor (GP) in another country, which is not particularly helpful as we live in the UK. What would you say is a realistic prep schedule to get high enough UCAT and BMAT scores @opoponax?

I'm well impressed with you ds's spreadsheet research, that shows real initiative and maturity.

opoponax · 25/01/2022 22:27

Totally true @mumsneedwine. It would have been different for us if his school hadn't helped in explaining the process. They were also pretty good at telling DC they were barking up the wrong tree if the interest wasn't really there. They didn't do any of the work for the DC (no specific guidance on individual choices) but they stressed the importance of the legwork being done early and they had weekly guest speakers from different areas of Medicine that helped them to get a better idea of the context of their application.

I think what I am trying to say is that it was important to me that all through he was owning his own application. That was simply because I felt that he was choosing a difficult career and I wanted him to be in the driving seat to call time on it at any point - even though deep down I knew he didn't want to do anything else.

Yes @Thethingswedoforlove I have DS just started at Newcastle and DD is applying this next cycle. A longer gap would have been nice!

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mumsneedwine · 25/01/2022 22:33

@MasterJames if they are in year 9 there is nothing to do just yet. Except get the best GCSE grades they can. Start looking at work experience in year 10/11 (Covid willing), then UCAT BMAT prep for latter end of year 12. A spreadsheet around then is a v good idea - my DD had one too. Working out where your GCSEs and UCAT can maximise chances of an interview is vital. That and deciding what they want from a course - full body dissection, integrated or PBL, early patient contact, location of placements. Every Uni does it slightly differently.

opoponax · 25/01/2022 22:39

Of course you are welcome @MasterJames. I would say the most important thing in Year 9 is just for your DS to to work hard and enjoy his school subjects (particularly sciences) and also encourage extra-curriculars (purely for balance). I think it is good to get them to consider a range of careers as things can change as they mature. The application process changes all the time so I wouldn't spend time at this stage on that. The UCAT prep should only be the month before. DS didn't want to apply to BMAT med schools so I am no authority on that but his friends who all did well in it just drew on their strengths in their A Level subjects and prepared for the specific exam in the weeks before. So no huge lead time for either.

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opoponax · 25/01/2022 22:49

Sorry cross post @mumsneedwine - I should leave it to the experts!

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mumsneedwine · 25/01/2022 22:57

@opoponax you are an expert. Going through the process as a parent is tough. I learned so much when DD applied.

opoponax · 26/01/2022 08:13

You do pick things up quickly as a parent going through the process but I think you view it through the prism of your own child. It's definitely not the same as going through it each year with a whole range of children with different profiles.

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DTJ · 26/01/2022 09:38

Can I join in please. DD currently in lower sixth, hoping to apply for 2023. Her college has just started a 1 hour per week programme for med/vet/dentist hopefuls and she's already been doing a lot of research herself. I'm worried she's discounting places too soon, is it possible to research too early?

opoponax · 26/01/2022 11:10

Welcome to the thread @DTJ. I think early research is a good thing and a systematic approach means that they are less likely to discount options for spurious reasons i.e. they can reference back to their spreadsheet and weigh up how well their profile fits with that option vs its attractiveness to them so at least it is a well thought out decision. The other caveat is to treat the research as evolving and keep an open mind as some things (e.g. the UCAT ) can change options significantly. My DS ended up reworking one of his options after the UCAT. He swapped out a Scottish one with a very low RUK cap for one where his UCAT would almost certainly secure an interview.

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HunkyDory69 · 26/01/2022 18:00

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HunkyDory69 · 26/01/2022 18:01

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opoponax · 26/01/2022 18:09

Hi HunkyDory69. I am hearing a lot that the med schools are recognising how hard it is for them to get any medical work shadowing in COVID times so, although always interesting, I don't think it is critical to their applications. The important thing is how they can reflect on whatever opportunities they have managed to get and it really doesn't need to be anything glamorous. The reflection on it is far more important than the nature of it, if that makes sense.

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mumsneedwine · 26/01/2022 18:15

@HunkyDory69 sounds like she has lots of work experience lined up. You do not needs weeks and weeks. Volunteering long term or having a job count for just as much as shoe commitment, time management, people skills etc.
Spreadsheets are great and narrowing down in year 12 is a good idea. Choose a type of teaching style you like, think about dissection vs prosecution, look at early patient contact (or not). BUT leave enough that select for interview on different UCAT scores. Not admissions criteria, delve down into how they select for interview.

HunkyDory69 · 26/01/2022 18:40

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cptartapp · 27/01/2022 06:49

Following.

Needmoresleep · 27/01/2022 09:20

HunkyDory, though others will say that it does not matter where you study and that a doctor is a doctor etc, medical schools are different and there is a wide variety of medical careers. There is a fundamental decision about what might suit.

DD is academic but also dyslexic, and went to Bristol (in the days when they did not require either UCAT or BMAT) which is quite a hands on course. She is practical and decided to not to apply to Oxbridge/London, even though her odds of getting a BMAT school were higher. (UCAT is difficult for those with slow processing speeds, so there were only a limited number of places she wanted to go to and could get into.) She considered it a two year process and would have reapplied and taken BMAT if unsuccessful first time round.

If your DC is potentially interested in academic medicine they should consider Oxbridge/London. A consultant friend who does some interviewing says they actively prefer those who have the potential to go onto research. (She is not too sure about this!) Or somewhere like Bristol that allows external intercalculations. DD spent a year at Imperial studying bio medical engineering and loved it. Loads of really exciting things are happening. The Imperial students and their course were clearly more academically orientated, but not necessarily better. Her intercalation offered five funded PhD places, though even if interested she would not have been eligible as Bristol required her to return after the year. The important thing is that it has given her useful understanding of the technology in the (very competitive) field that she wants to enter and will look good on her CV when she starts applying for jobs.

However that said, most are not, and will prefer a five year course over six.

The thing that we are now aware of which we were not before (non medic family) is how long it takes. 5/6years of medical school is only the start. F1/F2, specialist training where you have to study whilst working, and more. DD could well be in her 30s before she is able to settle. One reason why many change their plans and either opt for the more straightforward GP training (still 3 years!) or opt out of medicine altogether.

There is debate about whether work experience is useful in terms of applications, and whether something like part time work in a shop is just as good. I would argue that it is useful for the applicant. Shadowing helps understand what medical careers are about, and more menial jobs give a taste of the more basic parts of medicine. At 16, DD spent a summer volunteering/working in very sheltered housing: cleaning waitressing (including cutting up food for residents) and kitchen portering. The manager suggested that not everyone finds it easy to work with the elderly, and given a high proportion of patients will be elderly it is worth finding this out early. There will always be some students who arrive at medical school to discover that they find, say, bodily fluids difficult and want out. Or the prospect of working for a bureaucratic monopolistic employer. The more an applicant knows about the job, the more they are likely to enjoy the course.

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