Medicine 2023 Entry

[opoponax]

Hi all,

I don't think there is a Medicine 2023 Entry thread yet, so it might be an idea to get one started.

Anyone out there with DC applying or reapplying for Medicine 2023, please join a friendly thread for mutual support and useful advice from those who understand the UK Medical School application process.

Very true, @opoponax . Ultimately, it's up to them and they have to decide how much they want it. Maybe dd will end up having to take a gap year, and that's OK if she does... might actually turn out to be the best thing in the end, who knows.

@mumsneedwine , I think she has read the GMC guidelines, but she definitely overthinks some of the questions. @Lottsbiffandsmudge , dd says the same thing about similar questions seeming to be answered differently in different tests, and sometimes that can lead her astray, as she goes against her gut instinct because she thinks that they're looking for something different.

Yes he has been. That's why his score has slipped.

@Anothernamechangeplease absolutely. I have a doctor friend who strongly advocates a gap year for a whole raft of reasons. It's nothing in the context of the length of their career. It would be nice to get an offer but I would also love DD to have a gap year before it all starts.

Needing some advice and can't post on TSR as DD lurks on there. Name changed as this may be easy to identify us.

Unfortunately DD has bombed her UCAT and got 2400, SJT 2. Nothing went wrong on the day. She's worked hard and consistently scored much higher in all medify and UCAT mocks (2700+ at lowest and always SJT 1). She said it was just really difficult and scored less than expected across all sections.

We're Scottish and she has 5 A's at Higher and 8 A's at Nat 5 in the correct subjects. Doing 3 Adv Highers and 1 Higher this year. No contextual possibilities. Has a decent amount of work experience and volunteering etc

I'm not sure she has many options. Gap year and retaking UCAT is a possibility but not ideal for a number of very identifying reasons (could explain in a PM). She's not keen on doing BMAT.

Any other suggestions wise mumsnetters?

There are many better informed people on this board who will be able to advise you, @anonforthis1 , but just wanted to express some sympathy and solidarity. It must be so disappointing for your dd after all of her hard work and doing so well in all of the mocks, but these things do happen, and I'm sure she will get past it. It's tough that they only get one shot at it each year, and a bad day can have such a big impact.

Do you know why she isn't keen on doing the BMAT? That's the one ray of hope that I'm holding onto amidst my concerns about dd's UCAT, as her top two choices are BMAT anyway...

thank you @Anothernamechangeplease. DD is so disappointed and I feel the same for her. She's had a tough year for a variety of reasons and I'm proud of how she's come through it and was really hoping she would do well.

BMAT is tricky, partly she feels it's additional pressure when she will have a lot of school work to do, partly none of the BMAT universities were on her list of choices. Most importantly, her choices are limited because last year she started a Conservatoire course (difficult choice between that and medicine) but became very unhappy, realised it wasn't right for her/what she had hoped for, passed the year but has left. Many medical schools won't consider someone who has not finished their first degree, nomatter what that degree is.

Just reading this with interest - I think the issue with BMAT is that you don't know your score before you apply and therefore if you don't do well in BMAT, you've wasted a couple of your options.

I'm so sorry things didn't go to plan today @anonforthis1. So gutting after all that hard work and a bad exam day can happen to the most solid of DC. I'm sure that Monkey and Mumsneedwine will be along soon with specific advice but I just wanted to say please remember that even if this cycle looks tricky, there is always next year. Many DC find it so much easier second time round and also feel so much better prepared for what lies ahead after a gap year. Wishing your DD all the best.

@Anothernamechangeplease one key thing to think about, is that if your DD doesn't do well in UCAT there is always next year, which is not true of A level grades (you can resit, but it is much harder). So if she doesn't do well in the UCAT, it might be the push she needs to help her get back focusing on A levels, which is really key.
My DS is starting Nottingham this year after having taken a gap year. I was insistent that he not go straight from school to a tough course like medicine, so he applied for a deferred place - but what that also did was gave us the sense that this was a two year process. As it was, he did get two deferred offers, so he didn't have to redo UCAT and/or study for BMAT - but that was the backup plan, and it would not have been a disastrous plan.
I really think these kids need a break after A levels. It has been so good for my DS (as it was for me, even though I didn't do medicine afterwards). And work and volunteering and a bit of growing up in all sorts of other ways is a huge plus (and my sense is that a significant number of DC who didn't get in last year, particularly because they didn't do well at interviews, but who took a gap year and reapplied, did so much better because of the extra year of maturity).
And taking a gap year will give her longer to think about whether she really does still want to do medicine and does want to put the work in.
So what I am saying is that if the UCAT result is disappointing, and you are pretty sure it is because of little work, that might in some ways be the best thing for your DD - it doesn't put medicine out of reach for ever, just a year, which is a year she might actually need for other growing (whereas bombing A levels is much harder to come back from).

Other benefits of a gap year are that it reduces the stress around results time for her highers and if she does need any resits she has a year built in. Also when she does get an offer it will be unconditional which means she can arrange accomodation early and go away for a few months if she wants to without needing to be sorting out uni.

Having said that I would investigate Keele and Sunderland and the BMAT. Although right now she might not want to do another test there will be many students with high ucat who choose not to gamble with the uncertainty and hassle of the BMAT and so the pool of applicants to some universities will be more in her favour.

@anonforthis1 I'm so sorry that the UCAT didn't go to plan. It's a tough test and hard to perform under so much pressure. I can understand her reluctance to take a year out, but if she doesn't want to do the BMAT it might be her best option. As others have said it can be a fantastic year, and you're a long time working ! We don't know the exact deciles until September but it is unlikely they will change much.
She could apply to Keele and Sunderland if she has lots of good work experience - make sure she reflects on what's she's learned, not just lists what she's done. If she has perfect GCSEs and you're in Wales could also try Cardiff.
It's tough that it comes down to that few hours on one day. If she does try again next year she'll know more what to expect.
BMAT is worth a go if she's doing science and maths A levels as it's not much more work. Has she had a look at the papers - they are nothing like UCAT !

@anonforthis1 what about applying to Aberdeen, Dundee and St Andrews? I think they don't have as high a cut off as Glasgow and Edinburgh?
My DS wants Glasgow as will would only be 17.5 by time uni comes and would prefer to stay at home. The way his ukcat practise is going it's unlikely he will be able to apply- scores 2400-2500 but each section isn't consistent . His results are ALL over the place. He's gutted as also achieved 5As. He has his in 2 weeks but back to school tomorrow and has part time job we really need him to keep so will be limited to 1-2hr practice max per day going forward.

Scottish Unis are v v hard to get into unless you live in Scotland. So high UCAT usually needed unfortunately.

The DD is in Scotland @mumsneedwine. Sitting Advanced Highers this year.

@opoponax 😂😂 missed that bit. Sorry. Need more tea as had early start.
UCAT cut off still too high I think, but I don't know too much about the differences for Scottish students applying in Scotland. Are there any WP things around for local students ?

@mumsneedwine no worries. I bet you are having quite the week this week with the A Level results coming out. The poster said earlier that there were no contextual considerations and that things were complicated by her DD having passed her first year of Conservatoire and a number of med schools will not accept candidates who have previously started but not completed a degree. @anonforthis1 , if it is not too outing, could your DD ask for advice from GANFYD or Ecolier on TSR.

😊 it is a bit of a busy week.
Some WP schemes don't really need contextual data, they are open to any candidate that lives locally. Just not sure if there any in Scotland (as ours don't bother applying there as so little chance of getting in).

Thanks @mumsneedwine and hope all goes well for your students this week.

Can I ask a couple of questions?

Thanks to all the great advice on here (and TSR) we're gradually narrowing down DD's options, but just wanted to clarify a couple of points.

Liverpool was criticised earlier on the thread for having a chaotic admissions process this year and a low offer rate, but it looks like a feasible option for DD. Any suggestion that it will get better this year / worth a try?

Also, what is the position like in respect of Leeds? There are (hopefully) at least 4 x UCAT unis where she'd stand a decent chance of getting an interview, but not necessarily in big cities (which she'd prefer). Is it risky to list a BMAT uni (such as Leeds) - she has 8 x 9s, 1 x 8 at GCSE and AAA predictions. I am fairly confident she'd do well in BMAT (she isn't doing Physics so would need to revise there) but doing Bio, Chem and Maths.

Lost the stars - she has A star, A star, A as predictions.

@anonforthis1 as a Scottish applicant it may be worth doing a gap year to avoid £37k of tuition fees as I don't think she will be able to access any Scottish medical schools. If you want to go the UK route, she could look at Keele, Sunderland, Cardiff and Lancaster or Leeds (both need a fairly low BMAT for an interview if she has great academics). As advised above, BMAT is very different from UCAT and people who are very good at sciences and maths do not need to do a lot of work for it - DS1 did 3 days work on it after a festival and got a very high score. I would advise her to contact all of those with an explanation of the conservatoire year and check that they would consider her application.

I have a niggling thought that there was talk of Keele raising the UCAT threshold because they were overwhelmed this year, so need to check that too. The R&R form they use to assess applicants is available here (I assume it has not changed) - www.keele.ac.uk/media/keeleuniversity/fachealth/fachealthmed/pdfs/Roles%20&%20Responsibilities%20form%202016%20entry%20DRAFT.pdf

Cardiff is very random for people outside Wales, but worth a punt if she scores 27 points, has good experience and does not have other good options.

Leeds should be a safe choice for her.

@anonforthis1 actually I think you want to be in the top half of BMAT performers for Leeds, so Lancaster is safer.

@anonforthis1 I really hate being the bad guy but a UCAT of 2400 is v unlikely to get an interview at Liverpool. Or any other UCAT Uni except Sunderland and Keele (because they don't select using it, although I suspect they might this year due to the massive numbers they had this year). I've reposted the spreadsheet which hopefully helps. It's not the minimum UCAT Unis state but the last score that got a interview. It's a brutal process. Sorry. Hope I'm wrong.

It was me that mentioned Liverpool I think - DD mid 2700s.