Medicine 2023 Entry

[opoponax]

Hi all,

I don't think there is a Medicine 2023 Entry thread yet, so it might be an idea to get one started.

Anyone out there with DC applying or reapplying for Medicine 2023, please join a friendly thread for mutual support and useful advice from those who understand the UK Medical School application process.

@anonforthis1 I am so sorry. It is a brutal process. DD is, like Mumsneedwine's DD, in her final year, but I still feel scarred.

Luckily her school were clear from the start that it needs to be treated as a two year process. If you get a place first time round all well and good, but DDs UCAT was not great and she was recovering from a serious accident so was not able to sit BMAT. (And her dad was in intensive care... it was not a good time.)

We looked closely at the options and decided she would only apply for Medical Schools she wanted to go to and treat the whole thing as a useful practice run. The focus would be on getting the A level grades, with some time given over to planning a gap year. Second time around and she would practice a lot more for UCAT, sit BMAT, be older and wiser and she probably apply in parallel to alternatives. Back then The Republic of Ireland was a real possibility, though I don't what the fees would be now.

Another, albeit expensive, option was University of Buckingham. The fees are high and only a small proportion qualify for student loans, but the degree is 4.5 years and those with calculators can work out the NPV of starting work and achieving promotions a year earlier than those who defer. Again this was more manageable in the days of low interest rates, as a remortgage at 1.5% could start looking competitive with borrowing on student loans. Grade requirements are ABB to include chemistry or biology, and application deadlines are in September, giving time to get results before applying to start in January.

Luckily back then Bristol did not need UCAT, and they gave her a place. They then let her defer. She has never, for even a second, regretted taking that year out. Medical school is a slog, then F1/F2 are even more demanding followed by training in your chosen specialisation.

Good luck. A level grades are the priority. If she can find places that might interview her, it will give her experience and who knows, she might get a place. Has she considered QUB, who seem to give weight to academic achievements as well as UCAT

@Needmoresleep grade inflation means that so many score full points for GCSEs that QUB will need a higher UCAT to be competitive now. Each year for the last 4 years a good UCAT score has become more critical.

@Africa2go sorry !!! Shopping with youngest and typing in changing rooms. 2700 should be a safe bet for Liverpool. I like their course and they use to do a taster medical school day which was really good.

Thanks Monkey. QUB used to have the reputation of a good place to applicant ratio and liking applicants with good academics, and a good option for those who did not get the UCAT score they wanted. I had forgotten that this cohort will not have sat GCSE exams.

Sorry, forgot to reply to this.

Whilst I am sure it is a good course, I would not recommend Liverpool to people with other good options as their offer to interview ratio has been about 25% in recent years, which is dreadful! People on TSR reported video interviews with interviewers with very strong accents making it really difficult to answer questions.

Leeds sounds a good option and she could look at Manchester, Birmingham (if at a state school on their massive list), Leicester, Aston, QUB. I am assuming that Plymouth, UEA and ARU are not city enough. If she has a band 1, Nottingham would be a good option.

@anonforthis1 I'm nearly sure Scottish applicants don't need as high a UCAT score for Scottish unis as the rest of the UK applications.

@Monkey2001 thank you - its so frustrating because quite alot of the documentation is out of date - is this because they wait until the A level results have come out and then consider the approach for the next entry year? It doesn't give students much time to get to grips with strategic choices / what last year's cut offs were. The admissions document for Liverpool seems to be for 2022 entry still - it does say that they made a low number of offers in 2020 and 2021 due to Covid but expected to "significantly increase" the number of offers for 2022. Do you just have to wait for an updated document for 2023 entry to see if it gives any more details?

Yes for Nottingham I think - she'd get 132 with B1 (and this is one where last year's cut off is published - 127).

For Birmingham, she's at a state school but not one of the ones listed, but it looks with the new scoring she'd get around 8.2 depending on whether the deciles move for UCAT scores, possibly more. I think with the new scoring, no-one would be able to say whether this will be enough, but their admissions data says there was a UCAT threshold higher than her score - I'm not sure if her point score would even matter in that case, she'd be rejected anyway?

Leicester might be a bit risky too - I think she'd get 59 and last year's cut off was 58.5.

She also seems to score quite well for HYMS (either 73 or 77 depending on how the deciles come out) as that relies on B1 too quite heavily.

She'll definitely consider other places, she's alive to being strategic, just that they wouldn't be her first choices.

@Monkey2001 it might be a bit premature to ask but is your feeling that a safe UCAT for anywhere is still likely to be around the 2900 mark this coming cycle or do you it is likely to go up this year? DD's UCAT prep is going really well but I think her idea of what represents a good score is distorted by DS's score having been stupidly high when he did it two years ago. I think there is enough pressure without her piling extra on. Any thoughts much appreciated.

Thank you everyone for your helpful posts - honest too which is what I wanted. I don't think anyone has told us anything that we didn't already know but at least I know that I'm giving DD decent advice.

UCAT cut offs are lower for Scottish kids applying to Scottish courses but sadly not that low. A couple won't consider her anyway due to her conservatoire year and that also looks like being the case for the BMAT unis too.

I think we're coming round to the idea of a gap year or looking at Dublin.

Good luck to those yet to sit the UCAT

Although, as a medic who has had yet another horrendous day at work, goodness knows why any sane person wants to do this!!!

@opoponax 2900 should be enough for most Unis in England. Although Bristol and Newcastle keep creeping up every year. It will certainly give more than 4 v v safe options so interviews can be virtually guaranteed. Nothing is ever certain though. After this year !
@anonforthis1 it's so tough and I hope your DD is OK. I would suggest emailing any Unis she likes and checking they'll be bothered by her year at a conservatoire. The rule is stop people doing the first year of something and reapplying while at Uni as it's unfair on that Uni to have a student drop out for medicine. But music is so different it might not count. Worth a try for next year if that becomes the plan. I'd still suggest BMAT - nothing lost by trying and applying.
And you have my total respect being a doctor. The stories my DD tells me about the understaffing sounds hideous. Wish she'd gone for plumbing.

Hi, could I ask for your help too? My daughter is in a similar position to @anonforthis1 's in that she got a much lower score in the UCAT today than she was hoping for - 2560. She had been practicing at 2700-2800 and had never got anything other than SJT band 1 but got a band 2 today. Like Anon's dd, she has straight A nat 5s and highers in all science subjects plus English. She will apply for Scottish universities primarily if there is any hope, and also do the BMAT, and is considering a year out though not wanting this at all. (I think it could be good for a few reasons.)

My question is whether any of you know whether 2560 is in with any kind of shout for Scottish students in Scotland or if it is just too low? For eg in Dundee, it says the average UCAT score invited for interview was 2715, but it depends how steep the normal distribution curve is as to where the min and max lie doesn't it?! I suppose I could try and work it out from the deciles, but they are national aren't they?

@BungledBundle I'd also like to know the cut offs for Scottish unis for Scottish applicants?
Do unis make this information available?
I thought it was quite a bit lower than rest of the U.K. applicants.
On google it just says St Andrews needs to be above 2400 to be considered? This is much lower than the table of results below.

I'm so ignorant of the process my child is going though. I thought they would be fine in Scotland with 2600 or above. Their friend got 2700 last year and got interview for Glasgow (no WP) but Glasgow resident.

@workingfromhomeforthenow unfortunately the minimum UCAT just gets you past the hurdle of having the right qualifications. Then they rank their candidates and offer interviews to the top ones. They can't do this for all students who meet the minimum so it depends who else applies as to what the cut off is each year. The spreadsheet gives you a rough idea as scores will be higher this year due to the fiasco of last year.
Some Unis publish their last few years cut offs so be worth googling eg 'Glasgow cut off UCAT'. Or going on TSR, choose medicine, medical school and look at the relevant posts for each Uni you are interested in. That will give you a good idea of last years scores.
I'm afraid UCAT has become so important now, especially due to the CAG GCSEs. I'm not an expert on Scottish applicants I'm afraid.

And be careful when looking at minimum UCAT scores invited to interview as these will often include contextual offers. So can look artificially low.

Found this for Aberdeen. They do 60% academic score and 40% UCAT. Usually I'd say it's a good bet if have perfect exam results, but next year so many are going to have those because of CAGS. But looks possible with 2500.

www.abdn.ac.uk/smmsn/undergraduate/medicine/admissions-data.php

@workingfromhomeforthenow I agree with mumsneedwine to go on the student room and look through the posts for the individual universities she is interested in. It takes some time but look through the posts where they start to get interview offers and look at the scores the students there are posting. No one, not even the medical schools will know for sure the ucat cut offs until all applications are in because it depends who else applies to that place because they tend to say offer interviews to the top 500 scorers rather than those scoring above 2XXX on the UCAT.

The list of medical schools is here www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=6962492

Thanks @mumsneedwine and @Unexpecteddrivinginstructor . That's very helpful. I will do that for all the Scottish unis which seem within reach. I understand no-one can say for certain what the ucat cut-offs will be.

There is Scottish theme on here tonight!

TSR is not great for Scottish people as there are many more English posters. Still worth looking, but you have to be careful about how to interpret things as most have 6 different cut-offs:
Home(/EU) - Contextual and non-contextual
RUK - Contextual and non-contextual
International - Contextual and non-contextual
TSR people do not always say what they are, and don't always know if they were contextual.

The best way to get the information you really want is to put in a Freedom of Information request and make sure you have worded it very carefully. You (probably) want the Home, non contextual cut offs for St Andrews, Dundee and Glasgow and the lowest UCAT score for a Home non-contextual interviewee with predicted AH results for Edinburgh and Aberdeen. It is really easy to put in requests on "whatdotheyknow" and they have 28 days to respond, so plenty of time for your DCs' decision making.

Caveat on @mumsneedwine data for Aberdeen is that they give an extra 5 points for achieved grades for A level applicants, if they do the same for AHs, the cut off may be a little higher for people with predicted grades.

Here is a good example for St Andrews 20/21 entry, they have replied that the cut off for non-contextual Home applicants was 2580.www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/a100_ucat_scores_achieved_grades_2

Thank you. It's very helpful. The Scottish pupils received their Highers results last week and here we are nearly at the UCAT hurdle. If they underperform they obviously can't apply and will need to rethink everything.
They achieved 5As but with appeals this year I imagine that there will be many more applicants and UCAT cut offs even higher. I was clutching at straws with respect to lower cut offs for Scottish applicants.

DD's UCAT is today... please keep your fingers crossed for her!!

Good Luck to your DD@Anothernamechangeplease.

@Anothernamechangeplease 🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞

Hope it goes well - at least she'll know the result as soon as its over x

@workingfromhomeforthenow the UCAT cut offs are lower for Scottish students in Scotland. Just not that much lower. But who knows. Tomorrow might be a bit of an indicator as to where grades will be next year and whether Unis will stay with this waiting list method or go back to 'normal'. Nothing is in clearing and Unis know the results, but the UCAS embargo might be stopping them giving wait list places until tomorrow. It's going to be a day 😳

Thank you all for your good wishes. She did a mock last night and it went really well, so I'm just hoping that she can replicate that. Either way, I guess we'll know by the end of the day!!