DD being discouraged from Cambridge by school

[quittingteacher]

Hi all,

I wondered if anyone had any experience and could help guide us. My DD is predicted A*AA and we were contacted at the beginning of Y12 by her school who identified her as a potential Oxbridge candidate.

We signed up for the relevant Cambridge Spring access courses and outreach courses (we qualify as disadvantaged due to our postcode). At all of the Cambridge webinars attended, they made a point of saying that it's a myth that you need all 8s and 9s at GCSEs and to ignore this advice given by well meaning people.

My DD didn't do fantastically in her GCSEs and has only now in sixth form realised her actual potential.
Her grades were 555666677.

Anyway, now we are in Y13, her school have told her she shouldn't be applying to Oxbridge as her GCSE grades aren't strong enough. I'm really annoyed as it was the school who encouraged us to think about Oxbridge last year.

My DD has since been invited by the outreach team at Cambridge to an interview prep webinar that is specifically for those who would usually count as eligible for contextual offers elsewhere. But DD's Head of Year is adamant she is wasting her time.

My DD doesn't have her heart set on Cambridge and we know that the odds are against her getting in. But she'd like to at least have a try.

I don't want to keep encouraging her if it's completely unrealistic but I don't want to discourage her if actually, she has some chance.

If anyone has any advice, experience or insider knowledge, I'd be most grateful.

I would listen to the university rather than the school when it comes to whether her GCSE grades are good enough.

It's worth researching the course and the colleges to find out how they select for interview/offers to see how important GCSE grades are. If you give the course, people here will help you. The university will also be able to advise. You may also find that the selection process is different post A-level so your DD may have a second chance next year, if she wants to consider that.

What has she got to lose by trying? She has 4 other choices on her UCAS application, she only needs one offer and one insurance offer at lower grades. It is only a risk if she is applying for something like medicine where even excellent candidates may not get any offers at all so you need to apply strategically to the universities where you best fit the selection criteria to maximise your chances of getting an offer. What is the standard offer at other universities for the course she is interested in?

She will need to prepare for the interview by reading around her subject so she will have to get cracking... Again, people on here can offer advice, as well as the university, if the school is unhelpful.

She doesn’t need all 8’s and 9’s, but I would say those grades at GCSE are too low for them to consider her. Sorry.

Shes got nothing to lose by trying

From the Cambridge website:

www.undergraduate.study.cam.ac.uk/applying/entrance-requirements

There are no GCSE (or equivalent) requirements for entry to Cambridge. GCSE results are looked at as a performance indicator, but within the context of the performance of the school/college where they were achieved.

Applicants have generally achieved high grades in subjects relevant to their chosen course, and most students who apply have at least four or five 7/8/9s at GCSE (an A is considered equivalent to 7 and an A is considered equivalent to 8/9). However, there are always exceptions and we don’t require a minimum number of 7/8/9s at GCSE. One of the strengths of the Cambridge admissions system is its ability to assess all applicants individually.*

Our research shows that post-16 examination performance is a much better predictor of degree success at Cambridge. While GCSE results are looked at as a performance indicator, this is within the context of the performance of the school/college where they were attained, and strong performance in Years 12 and 13 can make up for a less stellar performance at GCSE.

@SmallGreenStripes

She doesn’t need all 8’s and 9’s, but I would say those grades at GCSE are too low for them to consider her. Sorry.

I agree with this as well sorry. Particularly if it's a subject with no entrance exam.

Listen to the University not the school as other PP have said. If she doesn't get in then she will have gained experience in interviews etc which will be useful later on.

I think you’ve got two choices here. If she wants to apply now she should go ahead- the exam now carries huge weight in terms of who is interviewed. Her GCSE grades do seem very low but the worst that happens is she doesn’t get an interview and she’s done her application early so it’s out of the way. Alternatively she can apply after her results. Cambridge are really keen to widen access. It’s very challenging and hard work though so it depends if she thinks it will suit her.

Those grades are on the low side at GCSE but if she’s been on a WP programme then presumably there is more flexibility for her on GCSE grades (I don’t know the specifics of this at Cambridge but at my institution GCSE reqs are dropped/lowered for students who’ve been on one of our WP programmes).

I would take schools comments with a pinch of salt, many aren’t great at UCAS or competitive courses and don’t have up to date knowledge. You just need to make sure they are willing to do the reference and submit by the date.

I think she should go for it. If she was late in knuckling down to study she should convey that to them in application. You just never know. I would not be put of by a bunch of people on here telling you it’s not worth it.

My DD has since been invited by the outreach team at Cambridge to an interview prep webinar that is specifically for those who would usually count as eligible for contextual offers elsewhere.

Listen to Cambridge. If anything it's useful experience

But DD's Head of Year is adamant she is wasting her time.

Ignore this idiot Head of Year

I do think schools need to help more than that. Teachers provide reading lists and provide extra work. They can also help with interview prep and test prep. It’s not a given everyone is interviewed so look at the entrance requirements. It’s a shame the school has gone back on what they said but it might be a resources issue.

Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

Thank you all so much for your opinions.

She has emailed the outreach leader and asked her advice. We've heard lots that they don't need all 8s and 9s but I'm not sure they mean they don't need any!

It's reassuring to see that the responses are mixed as I am so unsure and didn't want to think I was deluding myself. I go from thinking it's an absolutely ridiculous idea to thinking it's worth a shot.

The school have told her not to apply but I think they would support her with W good reference if she did.

Of course she should apply. I had great fun applying and interviewing. I had slightly better GCSEs than that but not massively better and was offered a place. Good luck to her.

My headteacher, at a bog standard state comp, asked me why I was applying to Cambridge and not Local University A or B.
He seemed mystified.
I got in and moved faaaaar away.
Ignore the school. The interview counts for a lot, as does their assessment of your potential, rather than what you’ve already achieved.

It's not medicine she's applying to, no. Offers at other good universities range from AAA - ABB depending on eligibility for contextual offers. We have local unis that accept BBB and even lower too.

I want her to go to university to have a fresh start, make friends and grow up. We've never been strict on her or pushed her to get A*s because we wanted her to want to do well for herself. She does want to do well and works so so so hard and I am so proud of her.

I was discouraged from applying to Oxbridge by my sixth form as I had 4A star and 5As at GCSE and they only allowed pupils with 6A stars to apply. Looking back, I wish I had someone encouraging me to at least have a go at it. I lived in an extremely deprived area and I knew nothing about contextual offers.

I don't want my DD to look back and regret not having a go. We live by the motto, never regret the things you did, only the things you didn't do.

She's got nothing to lose here.

If the advice from Cambridge is to apply end of. You don't want your daughter to regret not going for it down the line.

If positive news comes back from the outreach team, I would write to the school to confirm details that it's appropriate to apply and would appreciate their support/reference etc.

I don’t think your DD has anything to loose. She has to be in it to win it. If she wants to go for it encourage her to give it a shot without putting all her eggs in one basket.

DS didn’t do brilliantly at his GCSE’s but he fell fowl of his own school’s algorithm. Whilst this went in some kids favour it certainly didn’t go in DS’s favour and his GCSE results aren’t as good as he expected (only 1 x 9, 1 x 6 and the rest 7’s and 8’s). But his predicted A level grades are a bit higher than your DD’s but obviously these are only predicted grades anything could happen.

From what I gather its mainly about passion for the subject, predicted A level grade, PS, school references (and performance in the test if she has a test for her subject) rather than GCSE results. If she isn’t at a particularly good school and from a certain postcode this will improve her chances of getting in.

Hi OP. I’m sorry, but unless there were massively extenuating circumstances at GCSE, I would say those GCSEs are too low. Many schools wouldn’t let you onto their A-level programme with 6s and she only has two 7s. Also, predictions of AAA, while good, are the very minimum requirement and most will be applying with at least two or three A predictions, Many will also have done EPQ and / or a lot of reading or essay competitions beyond the curriculum. Thousands of applicants with a full set of 9s and A* are rejected every year. It’s very tough. I’m sorry, but just trying to be realistic. When they say GCSEs are assessed in context, this is true, but they would want to see at least several 8s or 9s, or at least mainly 7s.

@pi1ar thanks.

It's odd but the fact that thousands of applicants with straight 9s are rejected every year makes DD feel that it's worth applying as most people don't get in anyway.
She knows the odds are against her and so doesn't feel the pressure to get in and doesn't see it as a failure if she doesn't.
I'm not sure I'm explaining myself very well, sorry!

I would encourage your daughter to engage with the University- she has nothing to lose. You will get a range of responses on an Internet forum. I would be interested to know the background of the posters telling that your daughter will be unsuccessful. Where does this expertise come from - do they work at the university, experience of a recent application...??

@SmallGreenStripes

She doesn’t need all 8’s and 9’s, but I would say those grades at GCSE are too low for them to consider her. Sorry.

This. They projected she could achieve highly at gcse but she now hasn’t. I’m surprised if a 7 is predicting an A* on Alis.

A student with those grades wouldn’t be looked at by my old college (cantab)

@Dotoallasyouwouldbedoneby

Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

This!

@WishingYouAMerryChristmasToo

Nobody predicted she would achieve highly at GCSE. They were her predicted grades and she didn't sit her GCSEs because of Covid.

She has now been predicted much higher grades because she is working extremely hard and doing really well in the school's internal exams.

I mean the grades awarded at GCSE were more or less her predicted grades. She didn't fail to reach higher predicted grades as she wasn't predicted high grades in the first place. Due to Covid, she didn't get to sit any exams so we don't know if she would have done any better.