DD being discouraged from Cambridge by school

[quittingteacher]

Hi all,

I wondered if anyone had any experience and could help guide us. My DD is predicted A*AA and we were contacted at the beginning of Y12 by her school who identified her as a potential Oxbridge candidate.

We signed up for the relevant Cambridge Spring access courses and outreach courses (we qualify as disadvantaged due to our postcode). At all of the Cambridge webinars attended, they made a point of saying that it's a myth that you need all 8s and 9s at GCSEs and to ignore this advice given by well meaning people.

My DD didn't do fantastically in her GCSEs and has only now in sixth form realised her actual potential.
Her grades were 555666677.

Anyway, now we are in Y13, her school have told her she shouldn't be applying to Oxbridge as her GCSE grades aren't strong enough. I'm really annoyed as it was the school who encouraged us to think about Oxbridge last year.

My DD has since been invited by the outreach team at Cambridge to an interview prep webinar that is specifically for those who would usually count as eligible for contextual offers elsewhere. But DD's Head of Year is adamant she is wasting her time.

My DD doesn't have her heart set on Cambridge and we know that the odds are against her getting in. But she'd like to at least have a try.

I don't want to keep encouraging her if it's completely unrealistic but I don't want to discourage her if actually, she has some chance.

If anyone has any advice, experience or insider knowledge, I'd be most grateful.

I would think the problem this year is the grade inflation. So many people have perfect marks at GCSE, Cambridge will struggle to discriminate amoung them.

On the other hand, it is pretty low risk to apply. She just has to get her UCAS in a bit early. Why not apply?

DellaPorter unfortunately that's the problem. Your DS's GCSEs included a whole string of 8s and 9s, whereas the OP's DD only has 555666677. Even her predicted grades are not going to stand out amongst applicants with multiple A*s. (& no, I'm not the bitter parent of a private school applicant).

Also OP, don't treat getting an offer as the goal. Many people totally underestimate the work involved once you get there. The workload & pressure is relentless.

I think its a good approach to not tell anyone in life they can't do something. If she wants it she should go for it. Maybe she won't get in but also maybe on that journey she will discover something she wants to do even more - or meet someone who encourages her to take a direction which leads her to a place she ends up loving.
A pass is a 4 isn't it? And a grade 6 is an average age expected grade? Her grades do appear low to me to be honest, but I tell my kids there is nothing in life to stop them getting where they want to be. If she does well in A levels than why not go for Cambridge? And if its her GCSE levels holding her back she can resit them if going to Cambridge is what she really wants. But the teacher telling her not to try is poor form for me.

Err, It's a little late to resit GCSEs when her UCAS application us due in by 15 Oct.

She should meet with them. Ignore them saying she is wearing her time.

I find it appalling that a school would ever tell a student he or she is wasting their time applying to a university. They should encourage.

If a student is told no, then it builds resilience but they want to meet her and the head’s response was that she is wasting her time? Wow.. this is just totally unacceptable.

Honestly, everyone knows cags were
a complete fuck up. If there is ever a time that they will be disregarded it's now. Encourage her application and support her. You may need to speak to the school on her behalf. Lots of teachers haven't got a ducking clue. Many years ago my English teacher told me he didn't think I was the right calibre of student to do a law degree. Twat. I ignored him. She has nothing to lose and if she doesn't get in it won't merely be down to her cag awarded GCSE's.

One thing I've learned in life is that if you go for it, you have a chance, however slim. If you don't go for it, you have zero chance.

There's nothing to lose by trying.

I would be very interested to hear what the Widening Participation officer at Cambridge advises you OP. I think if they do say she should apply, then you should ask Cambridge WP to get in touch with the school and set up a WP relationship - they will have this with many schools - since the HOY is currently giving the students incorrect and outdated advice.

It doesn’t really matter what what the school or anyone on here says, no one can predict the outcome.

You’ll always regret not applying, so it’s a no brainer, you have to at least try!

Looking at some of these replies, some are saying ‘yeah she’ll be considered’, others say ‘no she definitely won’t’. The only people that have any answers, are the admissions team. If Cambridge are being positive then that’s all that counts at this stage.

I wouldn’t make it the be all and end all though. Such as anything other than an offer is a failure. It isn’t.

I think that your dd has a great attitude, she indeed has ‘nothing to lose.’
. Her Gcse’s were teacher assessed , this varied massively by school, I don’t think universities are going to be able to place as much store on those grades as previous years, they can look at them but they will be aware that some odd things happened. If her course has an entrance test I would do a couple of practices and see where she’s at and if encouraging, go for it.

Also, I think historically Oxford have looked at gcse’s much more than Cambridge, but who knows this year.

@HPandTheNeverEndingBedtime

Listen to the University not the school as other PP have said. If she doesn't get in then she will have gained experience in interviews etc which will be useful later on.

Exactly! Good practice! And if she doesn't get in this year then maybe she could take a gap year and apply again once she knows that she has aced her A-levels.

Thanks all. She was originally selected as a potential candidate by the school as she was performing well in class as had her predicted A level grades. I imagine the school didn't cross reference with her GCSE grades as she was a new starter to the sixth form and had come from a different school.

I was surprised she was selected because of her GCSE grades but thought perhaps the school had more up to date info than I do.

I'm not sure if I've given the impression that she has been invited personally to the interview prep webinar. If I I have, I apologise. It's more likely that she's on a database and our postcode as flagged that she's eligible. They do not know her GCSE grades either.

She got a reply from the admissions person today signposting her to the part of the website where it says that grades are not everything etc.

Cambridge have a central Admissions department and the head of that department says she loves the kind of steep upward trajectory your daughter has.

What programme is she applying for? Will make a huge difference to her chances of getting in. If there is a pre-interview assessment, that needs to be prepared - and if there is an at-interview assessment, then that can be prepared too.

I would definitely say overrule the school and apply. It's more work but the whole process is very enriching even if she doesn't get an offer.

The other thing she could do is apply post A level. Once she has secured strong A levels, GCSE grades are even less important.

PS didn't mean to imply that the head of the central Admissions department will even see, much less make a decision on your daughter's application.

BUT, she is qualified to talk in a general sense about the kind of students Cambridge really looks kindly on.

She should go for it. Nothing ventured...

I think there's more to it than just let her apply, it doesn't matter if she doesn't get in.

Firstly, it will take extra work-and if she gets in she may well need to do extra exams.
In doing that I have known students, who said they really didn't care, get very invested and be devastated when they didn't get in. Often they weren't the sort of students that you didn't expect to care, often they were surprised how much they cared when they didn't get in.

Then looking at the GCSE results. It's not just that they're not top grades all the way, it's more that there aren't any 8/9s. If she'd had 8/9s in her subjects she's doing for A-levels and 5/6 in the others then I'd say give it a go.

What they may do is look at her school (GCSE school)'s typical GCSEs and see how good they are for that school. If they are outstanding for that school, then they may look at them. If they're not, then I suspect they will disqualify her.

It's also not without a sting in the tail, which I suspect is what they school is looking at. She has 5 choices. That sounds a lot. But this year, they'll have competition from people who deferred who already have a space. If they normally offer 100 places and 30 are already done from deferred applications from this year, then students who normally would get offers may not. So she could end up without an offer.

It's worth talking to Cambridge and telling the real grades, how they fitted into the school, and seeing what they say. The general "you don't need all 8/9s" is not really telling you.

And if she wants to give it a go, but the GCSEs seem a stumbling block, tell her to work hard at the A-levels, and apply next year. If she gets the grades at A-levels it puts her into a different situation.

I can’t believe people are suggesting not to go for it because she might be upset/devastated she didn’t get in!! Learning to deal with failure is vital in life. It’s what shapes us and makes us stronger, and the lessons we learn from it are used for the future.

Depends on the subject..Anglo Saxon Norse and Celtic has a 60% acceptance rate.

@mellicauli

Depends on the subject..Anglo Saxon Norse and Celtic has a 60% acceptance rate.

Hahaha honestly It’s not hard to ‘get into’ Cambridge (Or Oxford for that matter!) if you choose a course that nobody else wants.

Also to add OP - having seen your update it’s unlikely that your daughter will get in. Since the admissions people didn’t know your daughter’s GCSE grades.
Unless your daughter has other ‘contextual’ points apart from the postcode and very strong ones to boot she won’t qualify.
Still there’s no harm in her applying provided that she doesn’t get her hopes up.

Yes you have a good chance of getting in for classics and music (caution it is a traditional music course looking at choral, classical composers and ethnomusicology taught mostly by older white men…)

Best to look at the course content including the modules available and the professors teaching it to make your own mind up about how traditional it is and the demographic of who is teaching. For example the Music course is much broader than described by new girls

As a pp said, it's not correct that thousands of applicants with straight 9s are rejected each year. For a start, there have only been two admissions cycles where applicants applied with all numbered grades (leaving aside the fact that many indies - who put up loads of applicants - swerved the numbered grades challenge). And only a tiny proportion of those had all 9s. Everyone will know one or two applicants in that position but it's pretty rare. They'll have messed up on their aptitude test most likely. And it certainly doesn't follow that because some applicants with straight 9s don't get offers, heaps of applicants with 5s, 6s and 7s do. GCSE grades are a seriously important filter, especially at Oxford.

On the idea that you can skip into any college of your fancy to do Classics or Music etc, I'd be cautious. Possibly, possibly if you're extremely good at bullshitting you might stand a better than average chance at getting in for say Philosophy/ Theology, but bullshitting your way into Music? Good luck! Equally good luck with Classics: it's not for the fainthearted. My youngest is reading Classics at the moment and has siblings who read allegedly more competitive subjects at Oxford (a couple Law, several History, one Medicine) and the youngest is at least as smart as the older ones - I think she could have got in for any of those subjects had she wanted to. Not Music though! No chance.

@TractorAndHeadphones You have stated here and on another thread about it being easier to get into "less competitive" courses. Actually Cambridge does on occasion make no offers rather than take people for bums on seats for such courses and use the space for a "more competitive" course instead.

Perhaps you have had experience of someone you consider not worthy of an Oxbridge place getting in and thus this feeds your narrative.

Whilst Cambridge does not put as much weighting on the gcse grades I would be extremely surprised if anyone with the OP's DD gcse profile and with a one A* prediction would receive an interview/offer.

However, as others have pointed out it is her application and thus her choice. In a year where it will be difficult to get offers from many competitive unis for competitive courses she may well be better off using that 5th choice for somewhere else.